Under the National government, being the Climate Change Issues Minister must be the easiest job in the world. Sure, Tim Groser does also have the more demanding role of Trade, but if I had to guess the number of hours each week he spends thinking “what can I do to help New Zealand reduce its emissions?” I’d guess the answer is pretty close to zero. And I’d guess much the same for the Associate Minister, Simon Bridges (who is also the Minister of Transport).

This is frustrating, when there are many things that we should be doing to cut our emissions right now – especially in transport. It’s even more frustrating when many other countries are taking climate change seriously, and gearing up to make big pledges at a climate summit at the end of the year, and our own government is so firmly on the wrong side of that line.

Because this summit is coming up, there’s actually been a flurry of articles in the Herald and other media, whereas climate change has struggled to get the attention it deserves in the last few years, in NZ at least. This reflects that our government is heading into the summit with an extremely weak pledge, where we essentially aren’t planning to do anything at all to reduce emissions.

“The Government’s refusal to do much of anything to curb New Zealand’s emissions is as economically myopic as it is morally contemptible”.

Brian Fallow, economics editor for the New Zealand Herald, 2013

Brian Fallow is a man whose pieces tend to be thoughtful and measured in tone, hardly someone who is prone to exaggeration. His recent column on the topic reads:

The legacy of woeful climate policy by the present Government and Labour before it – woeful from the standpoint of actually reducing emissions – is that emissions are running more than 20 per cent above 1990 levels. They shouldn’t be, but they are.

The ETS was enacted in the last few weeks of Labour’s ninth year in power and was promptly emasculated by National. As it stands, it exempts the great majority of New Zealand emissions altogether and has in recent years imposed on the rest a carbon price measured in tens of cents rather than tens of dollars.

Fallow continues, but, essentially National are opting for a “kick the can down the road” policy, without giving NZ businesses and individuals any incentive to actually decrease their emissions. Predictably, some recent modelling work suggests that emissions will actually increase under this scenario. The government will then need to buy credits from overseas countries that are actually doing something, so that we can meet our international obligations.

National’s stance on this has been criticised by a number of scientists and organisations, as in the article above:

Professor James Renwick of Victoria University of Wellington, an actual climate scientist, says the target is as weak as previous ones and does not come close to what is required, if New Zealand is serious about keeping warming to less than 2C, as the Government has said we are.

“The science says, compared to 1990 we need about a 40 per cent reduction by 2030, 90 per cent by 2050, and 100 per cent by 2060 – and then negative emissions (removal of CO2 from the atmosphere) for the rest of the century.”

New Zealand, he notes, is one of the highest emitters in the world on a per-capita basis.

Fallow also wrote another article three days later, which continues on this theme. My emphasis in bold:

The greenhouse gas emissions reduction target for the 2020s the Government intends to pledge has been rated inadequate by Climate Action Tracker, and as falling short of a fair share of the international effort required.

If most other countries were to follow New Zealand’s approach, global warming would exceed 3 or 4°C, a world that would see oceans acidifying, coral reefs dissolving, sea levels rising rapidly, and more than 40 per cent species extinction.

“While most other governments intend cutting emissions, New Zealand appears to be increasing emissions, and hiding this through creative accounting. It may not have to take any action at all to meet either its 2020 or 2030 targets,” Hare said.

There are no policies in place to address the fastest-growing sources of emissions in New Zealand from transport and industrial sources. For the energy system, whilst it is predominantly hydro and renewables, there is potential for further increasing renewable energy, and improving efficiency on the user end.”

It also points out, as domestic critics of the target have and as Climate Change Minister Tim Groser has conceded, that it does not put New Zealand on a direct, straight line path to its longer-term goal of a 50 per cent reduction by 2050, unlike other major economies such as the European Union or the United States.

“New Zealand’s climate policy is projected to head in the opposite direction from the world’s biggest emitters such as China, the United States and the European Union.

It has taken little or no action on climate change since 2008 – except for watering down its ETS – and we can find no evidence of any policies that would change this,” said Professor Kornelis Blok of Ecofys.

As per one of our posts from 2013, New Zealand’s emissions come largely from agriculture – which is a tricky problem to solve – and energy, including transport. Since it’s going to be hard and expensive to cut our agricultural emissions, we’re going to have to put a lot of focus on transport emissions, and reduce them significantly.

John P Emissions

How do we cut our transport emissions? Electric vehicles will help. Indeed, in the decades to come, they could actually make a huge difference, given NZ’s mainly renewable electricity supply. But that’s a long way off. In the meantime, we need to stop building huge new highways and motorways, and start investing in public and active transport instead. These things are not about NZ being a leader in reducing emissions, or even a “fast follower”. We’re slipping further and further behind on that front. It’s simply about taking cost-effective, sensible and actions which will prove themselves much more sensible in the long run.

The government has recently started to boost cycling funding, which is good – and it may well be more effective than public transport spending for our small to medium cities. But for our larger cities, we need both public and active transport. For Auckland especially, we should be investing in public transport infrastructure – the big ticket stuff like the City Rail Link, the quick fixes like bus lanes, and the intermediate things like busways. The council understands this, to a reasonable extent. But the government has stayed right out of it, overriding the priorities set by the council or Auckland Transport and instead pouring billions of dollars into motorways instead. That has to change.

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85 comments

  1. If/when we next have a government with any conscience in these matters, it’ll be them who get to be the bearers of bad tidings and announce that “the party is over”. This probably suits National’s agenda pretty well.

  2. “Man made” climate change is not really even proven. Top scientists disagree on this and former believers in the theory are stating they are doubting it’s validity. But I’m all for more public transport and reducing poisons in the earth. Too much tax on productive portions of the economy will kill NZ quicker than a theory about an increasing warmer (or is it colder now?) climate.

      1. “Go sit in the dunce corner. Intelligent and ordinary people are having a conversation.”

        That sentence obviously shows you have a commitment to intelligent debate and discussion and is against this blogs guidelines.

        1. Having a “commitment to intelligent debate and discussion” generally starts with acknowledgement of the facts.

          In this case, that the increase of atmospheric concentration of CO2 (and other “greenhouse” gases) leads to increased heating, as established by Svante Arrehenius a very long time ago, building on the work of John Tyndall and Joseph Fourier an even longer time ago. Angstrom famously criticised Arrhenius’s work of course and lost the argument. That was in about 1900. Yet here we are in 2015, with the CO2 levels up from 280 ppm to over 400 ppm.. the heating inexorably rising, and there is overwhelming agreement amongst climate scientists in the peer reviewed body of literature about the causes http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024 ..and even though so much of the science is available as never before, yet there are still people who don’t accept the facts.

          I used to question such opinions, try to understand what counter views there may be, where people were coming from. I was wasting my time: “‘Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience” (George Carlin). Rather I suggest therefore that “go sit in the dunce corner” is an entirely reasonable response to anyone claiming otherwise.

        2. It may increase the heating…but is it of significance compared to normal climate cycles over the centuries, changes in the Sun’s activity etc …and what else don’t we know about yet?? There is a well-established effect of urbanization causing localized heating, such that weather stations that are situated in such areas show significant rises in temp. that have nothing to do with global warming.
          I’m sure we both could post many many links supporting both our arguments, but I’m sure we won’t get anywhere on that one as it’s been done before.
          http://petitionproject.org/gw_article/Review_Article_HTML.php

        1. Hilarious. Anyone with an opposing view gets attacked and called names. BigWheel it’s time you and Grant grew up. Your opinions are no more or less valid than anyone else.

    1. Grant the debate on climate change is over, there is no discussion – there are only deniers (or those not aware of the facts).

      It is not just transport NZ has lots of low hanging fruit which our Government is ignoring. The focus on the hard 40% methane emissions from cows ignores the other 60% which can be addressed.
      Examples beyond transport which should be addressed now include insulation on homes – the Heat Up NZ programme should never have been stopped. Do you know there is also 12 consented wind farms in NZ that have not been built? It takes a lot of effort to go through the consenting process. And why have these 12 wind farms not been built? The lack of incentives and direction from the Government that spends far more on trying to get oil companies to explore and find gas & oil instead of focusing on good jobs in the renewable sector.
      The other key action is a price on carbon, be it through a carbon tax or the ETS with a proper price and including all markets.
      I am sick of historical industries assuming they can create damage to our environment and expect me and other tax payers to pay for it. If you produce carbon you should pay for it. It is called User Pays and is a much fair system than the free loading historical system where carbon polluters don’t assume any of the responsibility.

      1. I like this quote I found today: “Finally, about claims “the science is settled” on global warming: “One thing that being a scientist has taught me is that you can never be certain about anything. You never know the truth. You can only approach it and hope to get a bit nearer to it each time. You iterate towards the truth. You don’t know it.” – http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22/green-drivel

        1. The science isn’t settled on gravity? May as well not take common sense measures to prevent myself falling off of precipices then! Thank you!

    2. Whether you believe its man made or not, the climate is most definitely changing.

      The US President made this statement to the US population about Climate Change – at this url: https://www.whitehouse.gov/climate-change

      “WE CAN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THAT SUPERSTORM SANDY, AND THE MOST SEVERE DROUGHT IN DECADES, AND THE WORST WILDFIRES SOME STATES HAVE EVER SEEN WERE ALL JUST A FREAK COINCIDENCE. OR WE CAN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IN THE OVERWHELMING JUDGMENT OF SCIENCE — AND ACT BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE.”

      and:

      “CLIMATE AND WEATHER DISASTERS IN 2012 ALONE COST THE AMERICAN ECONOMY MORE THAN $100 BILLION”

      Yes its shouting at you, but sometimes you need to be shouted to cut through the background din.

      1. It’s happening alright, but weather man can do much about the cause of it is the question. Quoting Obama doesn’t go much to convince me sorry.

        1. Well you go your own merry way then, we like fact based arguments around here and producing some proper facts or scientific evidence about your position is part of that process.

          The pure logic of climate change is you either accept its an “act of nature” or its an “act of man”.
          Either way trying to adapt/do something about it is actually a very good and sensible strategy.

          In the worst case if its an act of nature, then you’re no worse off for having tried than not trying, and if it is act of man, then you might be able to control or influence the outcomes for the better.

          And what most economies are finding (as predicted they would), that adopting “Greener” technology actually works out cheaper and more economical over the medium to long run anyway over the BAU approach, so on a pure $ term, it makes sense – no matter what you believe the cause of climate change is.

        2. I’m all for greener technologies, as long as there is no nutty policy slapped in place which could cause an adverse reaction. Like bio-fuel subsidies causing the wholesale destruction of forests & increasing food prices. It’s not that simple just by judging by some of the other comments here already. If we think it’s man made, we are sending the world into a panic with governments implementing measures that just aren’t going to make the right difference. (PS Whoops I used the wrong ” weather” word in my last reply ironically.)

        3. I strongly support doing something about climate change. We should be spending our money on sea walls, on removing trees from near houses, on building homes further from the coast and on researching how agriculture will need to change. We shouldn’t be spending on silly ideas like cap and trade scams, international conventions and talk fests or planting forests if we dont actually need a forest, or killing off successful industries that provide us with jobs. Unfortunately the greenies think if we go vegan and walk everywhere the climate might not change, it’s laughable.

        4. “Unfortunately the greenies think if we go vegan and walk everywhere the climate might not change, it’s laughable.”

          Do you understand the rudiments of climate science?

        5. Probably as much or as little as you do. Any changes NZ makes will be so small in the scheme of things nobody will be able to measure any impact on the climate. Most green lobbiests know that but think we should make big changes to our lifestyle anyway to show the way to the rest of the world in the hope that they will make changes that actually count. Kind of like thinking if we dont go to war in the Middle East then peace might break out.

        6. Well I didnt realise green lobbyists were restricting their efforts to New Zealand.

        7. That is the point I am making. Doing anything here will make almost no difference. It will all depend on the big emitters cutting their emissions. 250 years of fossil fuel use isn’t going to be fixed by charging us a carbon tax or by cap and trade or any amount of hand wringing. All we can achieve is a lower standard of living.

        8. Yes, we all have to do our bit. Asking any given individual to do something is obviously going to achieve nothing. But if we all eat less meat and use less motorised transport – it will make a difference.

        9. The “we are all in this together” argument. So let’s do the average of other countries rather than turning up with ridiculous claims of what our goal is.

        10. We are negotiating an agreement. We could at least be bold (i.e. meet climate science recommendations) with our conditional commitment.

        11. So despite our reductions having almost no impact you would like us to be bold in the hope that bigger emitters might want to match us? To me that is the whole problem with these agreements, we start from a position of no influence, we offer something that has no meaning and we watch while it has no effect. We may as well turn up and offer to reduce our emission by 110%. It wouldn’t make any sense but hey at least we are being bold. This next agreement will be as weak as Kyoto. Better to spend out time and energy doing something that might work, like building a seawall for Nauru.

        12. It is actually important that we try. Saying mitigation is the only way to go leaves us with very large risks. You might be right that we wont solve this problem, but the history of the future is yet to be written. People thought global totalitarianism was inevitable, they thought nuclear war was inevitable.

          It isnt just the “median” effects of 2-3 degrees warming, droughts, some low lying flooding etc, that we are worrying about. It is also the lower probability, very high consequence eventualities where feedback loops kick in and we get major catastrophic environmental effects. Thats not a dice I particularly want to roll.

        13. “. . . .but weather man can do much about the cause of it . . . .”

          Confused me for a moment there. Very sneaky typo, given the subject!!

          – – – – –

          Here’ the correction:

          “. . . .but WHETHER man can do much about the cause of it . . . .”

        14. I am inclined to agree that man-made climate change is not incontrovertibly “Proven”. I doubt we will ever prove it, but the balance of evidence is that it is happening, and this evidence is strong enough that we are being very reckless not to take it seriously.

          What are the options?
          1) Ignore it because we don’t believe it. Fine if perchance our belief is right against all the evidence which strongly says otherwise. But a big risk that we are walking into a preventable disaster with eyes wide shut.

          2) Take it seriously, even if the science is wrong. The prudent option by most accounts.
          If we really are screwing up the eco system on which we depend then it makes an awful lot of sense to stop it.
          On the other hand, if it is true that nothing we can do will alter the climate situation, is it such a bad thing if we clean up our act anyway? Yes I know man-made-climate-change deniers would have us believe the world economy will grind to a halt if we take any such action, but we need to recognise the scare-mongery that goes with this agenda, every bit as much as deniers claim that climate-science is scaremongery.

          The reality is not that we must stop everything and back-track civilisation, just start doing things differently. This in itself will bring new opportunities and new prospects that will replace those that we must move away from. Option 2) sounds like a win-win in many respects.

        15. Grant, please let us know who or what *would* convince you? I’m sure we can provide the sources.

    3. “Top scientists disagree.” Who? Exactly what do they disagree about? You’re right, though. Many top scientists disagree about how bad it will be, the pace of warming, specifics of the models and other technical details.

      “Former believers are stating they are doubting it’s (sic) validity.” Again, who? How many former deniers have come to see the overwhelming evidence in favor? Why is it that 97% of scientists agree that climate change is happening, it’s human caused, and it will have dramatic consequences? And many of the other three percent are funded by the fossil fuel industry? What about the 200+ heads of state that believe it’s real? How about the multi-billion dollar reinsurance industry who believe it’s real? How about the US military that believe it’s real and poses strategic threats to national security?

      The science is settled, Grant. Sorry it doesn’t fit your world view. An intelligent discussion is what to do about it, not dragging out the long since debunked deniers’ distortions and political agendas.

      1. A quick Google: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/22/green-drivel

        An example of over the top AGW promoting: “The climate secretary has denounced sceptics and other non-believers as ‘crackpots’ — an attack conforming to a key feature of what the philosopher Karl Popper defined as pseudoscience. Genuine science invites refutation; pseudoscience tries to silence dissent.” – http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8959941/whats-wrong-with-the-met-office/

        Here are a few hallmarks of pseudoscience practitioners:
        Withholding data from the public;
        Telling non-scientists we must trust and believe the scientists who are making a particular set of claims;
        Silencing dissenting voices;
        Claiming that the ‘deniers’ are seizing on scientific uncertainty as proof the idea is wrong;
        Saying people are wrong to question the orthodox, majority position;
        Denouncing critics and calling them names—e.g. ‘flat-earthers’, ‘Holocaust-deniers’

        Also see my link further up.

    4. Fuck man, heaven forbid that we build a sustainable, low resource green economy, and a bunch of scientifically illiterate trolls turned out to know more than every relevant scientist in the field so it was all for nothing.

      Whale oil might be more to your liking, fittingly it is where people go when told to sit in the dunce’s corner.

  3. “This is frustrating, when there are many things that we should be doing to cut our emissions right now – especially in transport. It’s even more frustrating when many other countries are taking climate change seriously, and gearing up to make big pledges at a climate summit at the end of the year, and our own government is so firmly on the wrong side of that line.”

    If the next climate change conference is like all the other climate change conferences, the EU will try to provide moral leadership with big pledges on reducing emissions and the BRICs will decline to engage on the basis of emission reduction criteria. The EU leads the world only in arrogance and moral superiority, because as negotiating stances go it is a useless position. We need a global solution and emissions reductions clearly aren’t this solution.

    We are not on the wrong side of any line.

    The EU Green movement needs to climb down off a delusional high horse and actually engage with the BRICs and the developing world.

    1. You might want to go tell US President Obama that he should do what all his predecessors did, show no leadership and reverse his Clean Power Plan for US CO2 reduction targets back to Business as Usual.

    2. The EU is unilaterally setting emissions reduction targets, and its governments are taking all sorts of steps to put them on a path to those targets. If anything, it’s more the US which is stalling based on wanting to know what the developing countries will do.

      1. And yet at the same time Europe’s consumptive demand continues to increase. The EU implements emission reductions, but pays trillions of euro buying from overseas producers.

        http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/mind-the-carbon-gap

        The EU outsources its carbon footprint and then preens with moralistic superiority at the rest of the world. We are never going to have a global climate change agreement on the basis of emissions, because moral superiority is not a good place from which to begin negotiations.

    1. Air travel is another kettle of fish altogether (e.g. http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2014/01/10/air-travel-and-energy-use/ and http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2015/01/12/international-air-travel-and-emissions/), but it’s a red herring. It’s a small (albeit rapidly growing) part of our total transport emissions, with few alternatives, and something which is up to the airlines to sort out, ideally with the aid of appropriate carbon prices. The government needs to focus on what it actually can influence, and that’s to do with land transport mode share. If individuals want to cut their private emissions by reducing air travel, that’s fine too.

      1. We can impose a fuel tax (suggest equivalent to that on a motor car) on international aviation fuel sold in NZ. We are almost uniquely positioned in the world (a long way from anywhere) such that this policy would make a very large contribution to preventing climate change as it would price a lot of tourism air-miles out of existence.

        It would prevent climate change, but not reduce our carbon emissions in any way.

  4. “The legacy of woeful climate policy by the present Government and Labour before it – woeful from the standpoint of actually reducing emissions – is that emissions are running more than 20 per cent above 1990 levels. They shouldn’t be, but they are.”
    During this time how much has New Zealand’s population grown? Population was 3,410,390 in 1990 and is 4,592,420 in 2015 (and since net migration is running around 60,000 pa this figure would be even higher). So in other words our emmissions have gone up by 20% while our population has increased by 34% (36% if you include the extra 60,000), or a net 14% reduction per capita.
    Most of this increase is due to immigration. But the majority view of bloggers on here is to open the doors to immigration!
    This is one of the many negative impacts of immigration (especially the low quality immigration we seem to welcome here in NZ!).
    Cut net immigration to 30,000 pa and reduce numbers from China, India and other developing countries and focus more on high quality skilled migrants from Europe (unemployment is high there shouldn’t be too hard), or places like America, Canada, Australia, etc. This would relieve pressure on Auckland house prices and infrastructure in particular but also keep a lid on emissions.

    Other things to consider is a rolling age limit on vehicle imports (we shouldn’t be bringing in vehicles that are older than 7 years (i.e. the half life of a car). There will still be plenty of cheap cars for people that can only afford that (they just might not be quite as nice) but in the mean time the safety standards and emissions of vehicles will improve. It would also encourage some marginal car users into PT.

    The single biggest emitter in NZ however is agriculture. I don’t think there are any other countries in the world that have this (they were more industrialised prior to 1990 so their emissions for the 1990 target were higher – we are being penalised for that and for being the world’s farm… we don’t get enough recognition for our forest sinks either- hence why we aren’t planting much forestry right now). On a positive note scientists have announced this week they have found a way to reduce methane emissions from cows and sheep etc by 1/3. If this is true and works out then we could cut our national emissions by 16% overnight. So that would leave us at 4% over 1990 levels despite a 34% (more like 36%) increase in population. Increasing use of electric vehicles (including EMUs), more efficient appliances/lights etc along with cars and buses, improved insulation, reduced thermal power generation etc and we should be easily below 1990 levels by the end of the decade.

    1. Bruce, most of NZ’s population increase in the last 25 years wasn’t due to immigration, it was due to good old births minus deaths. And migration increases our population but it also increases our ability to afford paying for emissions. It’s not altogether irrelevant, but it’s not the main issue here.

      A more modern vehicle fleet would help to chip away at the problem, but probably wouldn’t make a huge difference. The improved performance of newer cars seems to be quite exaggerated (see http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2014/12/20/the-new-zealand-vehicle-fleet-fact-and-fiction/)

      Some valid points on agriculture, and I haven’t looked at this in too much detail. But even if we can reduce those emissions from farm animals, there will probable be quite a bit of cost attached. It’s clear that we’ll need to cut agricultural emissions as well, but transport is where a lot of the low hanging fruit is (see also http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2015/02/05/energy-transport-and-efficiency/).

      “Increasing use of electric vehicles (including EMUs), more efficient appliances/lights etc along with cars and buses, improved insulation, reduced thermal power generation etc and we should be easily below 1990 levels by the end of the decade”. All good steps to take!

      1. Actually it was due to immigration as without it we would have actually had a net loss of migrants a lot of years (as people move to Australia in particular). New Zealand has one of the highest ratios of immigrants compared to people born here of any country. If instead of aiming for for net growth of population around 60,000 pa this had been 30,000 pa then Auckland in particular would probably have about 200,000 less people (and wouldn’t have a housing shortage). Interest rates over the past 2 decades could have been lower improving our economy in this manner and keeping the NZ$ at a lower level as a result (so as a country our business would have grown more from exports, higher wages for Kiwis, and cheaper houses and mortgages). Yes immigration is a positive in modest amounts but as the saying goes you can have too much of a good thing (especially when the good thing is weakened with low quality unskilled migrants for developing countries).

        Further to agriculture they estimate that it will not only cost much to change (mix in a small amount with feed cheaply) it will actually be cost positive as cows will actually put on more weight (ie being more productive with the feed). http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/70766233/fatter-less-flatulent-cows-good-for-planet-and-for-farmers.html

  5. Before everyone jumps down my throat I want to start by making it clear I am not a nut; climate change is a man made issue and needs serious efforts missing to date outside of China to address it.

    However, the article written by John is based on the falicy that cars are the problem and PT is the answer. Unfortunately the evidence does not support this

    http://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb33/Edition33_Full_Doc.pdf

    For those who like data and evidence to inform conversation.

    To cut to the chase, buses are about the same as cars when measured as CO2 passenger kg kilometre travelled.

    Electric trains are worse, but in NZ the power largely is from green sources so for us this is not the case.

    It’s simple. We all need to live close to where we work, and cycle everywhere to make a difference to emissions or all live next to the railway line.

    That, or become vegetarian 🙂

    1. Sort of., which chart or table are you referring to with regard to comparison of private motor vehicles vs. public transport?

      With more countries ditching fossil fuel electricity production and moving to renewables and nuclear power, electric powered vehicles (which right now is mostly trains) win out.

      And what I suspect the document you linked overlooks is the land use implications of the various transport modes. How much forestry is lost to sprawl? How much additional asphalt and concrete is produced to support the “happy motoring” culture that is so popular in Anglo-Saxon nations? etc.

    2. Public transport emissions are very dependent on how well utilised the services are. In the US, public transport is very poorly utilised, making it quite inefficient. In NZ, I’ve done some back of the envelope analysis which suggests that electric trains in Auckland probably slash emissions by at least 90% relative to driving, and buses probably cut emissions by at least a third. And those figures could be much improved. See http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2013/07/19/public-transport-emissions-in-nz/

    3. Yeah, those 750 people on each morning six car would obviously use less fossil fuels if the all drove petrol cars instead of their electric trains. (Even if the train is powered purely from Huntly it still represents a more than 90% reduction in carbon)

  6. What if a spanner gets thrown into the works, in the form of for instance, carbon border taxes levid on us? Would our leaders finally be forced to act, or would they throw a Tea Party instead?

    1. Carbon footprint taxes assessed on the border coupled with equivalent carbon taxes on internally produced goods – are probably the only solution that ever will have a chance of stopping climate change.

      Therefore they will never happen.

  7. My problem with these commitments is will they ever work? We can reduce agriculture emissions by reducing output but the same amount of food will be produced somewhere else on the planet probably using less efficient inputs. We could use electric cars that we charge up from new power stations probably coal or gas as most of the rivers we can dam are already done. We can plant trees that will all either be milled and release their carbon or fall over and rot and release their carbon. Or we could reduce our transport use by a few percent which equates to an even smaller percentage of our emissions which in turn is close to zero of the world emissions. Or more likely we can plan for more climate change. The last one is the most likely result so maybe we should get use to it.

    1. Some valid points, but clearly if everyone just kicks the can down the road then the world will be pretty stuffed in my lifetime. All countries need to take action, and it would be nice if there could also be some kind of consistent system which provides efficient price signals across the globe and across different sectors (not that that will be hammered out this year).

      “We can reduce agriculture emissions by reducing output but the same amount of food will be produced somewhere else on the planet probably using less efficient inputs”. – agree, so this is just about making sure the right incentives are set.

      “We could use electric cars that we charge up from new power stations probably coal or gas as most of the rivers we can dam are already done” – not the case, we’ve got plenty of renewable energy waiting for us to make use of it. See http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2014/03/17/can-new-zealand-transition-to-100-renewable-electricity-spoiler-yes/

      “Or more likely we can plan for more climate change. The last one is the most likely result so maybe we should get use to it”. No doubt we need to do a bit of that as well.

      1. “and it would be nice if there could also be some kind of consistent system which provides efficient price signals across the globe and across different sectors”
        More likely we will just get more crap like Kyoto where countries all set out to scam each other. Europe argued for 1990 as the base so they could use their peak as a base, NZ signed up thinking their forests would be a source of carbon income without understanding it was a cost at harvest time, eastern Europe claimed the terrible industries they had under communism entitled them to receive credits even though those industries had collapsed. The only honest participants were the US and Australia who rejected it.
        My view is that short of a world government climate change is a fact of life. Let’s not waste any money things that are not going to happen or things that can’t actually make any difference anyway. The whole cap and trade was a scam.

      2. A straight up carbon tax would be best in my opinion. If it is unilateral then make it a carbon consumption tax only.

        1. I would support a carbon tax on the basis that the Government needs money and has to tax something so better to tax something with negative externalities than rather than to tax people who are working for a living. Whether it would make one iota of difference to the climate is doubtful.

        2. “better to tax something with negative externalities than rather than to tax people who are working for a living”

          Hell yes. Land banking, carbon, congestion etc.

  8. I don’t agree that electric cars are a long way off. I could buy an Outlander PHEV or similar that uses petrol for long distances and electric for short distances and decrease my petrol use by about 90% today – but I’m not a new car buyer so I’m waiting for second hand ones to come through. I imagine that in 5 years or so 50% or more of new cars will be either partially electric or fully electric, and in 10 years or so they will start to make up a reasonable percentage of the NZ fleet.

  9. I hate to say this, and I even more hate to feel this way, but I think climate change is here to stay. As long as there are governments in the world like National, there will be resistance to any changes in policy, regulation of private industry, or push for behaviour change re consumption and energy use. The worst of these, of course, is the US. Despite Obama’s commendable new climate initiative, underlying US political trends are toward the right. They have numerous mechanisms to thwart administration rules. If they win the White House, game over.

    If the US doesn’t sign on, the other big polluters won’t, either, and there is far more money in the US backing the status quo than innovation and risk. If anything there may be incremental improvements brought on by individual decisions about what car to buy, whether to put solar panels on their roof, or reduce waste, but otherwise most American don’t give a rat’s about third world countries that may suffer, and feel well-isolated from any negative effect on themselves. We are still pushing a rock uphill, and the rock isn’t getting any smaller.

    1. With the internal mudslinging in the Republican Party a win for them will be very difficult. Hillary Clinton has said shed supports the action of Obama.

    1. Gradually shift tax on to consumers and it might work. Emission sources can evade with relative ease, consumers can’t.

  10. EU Countries do talk from the moral high ground and they take action; http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germany-briefly-hit-new-record-for-renewable-energy-generation?utm_source=Solar&utm_medium=Picture&utm_campaign=GTMDaily
    New Zealand on the other hand does neither. I’m ashamed to be part of Labour and National’s charade. And really, leaving livestock emissions to one side, it would really be quite easy as others have pointed out above. Our leaders need to get off the pot and set bold and achievable targets as one presidential hopeful has; http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-07-26/hillary-clinton-outlines-climate-change-proposals

    1. Europe has no moral high ground. They burnt fossil fuels for 250 years but argue the starting point should be 1990 rather than fix any damage they have done. 1990 also allows them to claim a reduction due to the fact a lot of their businesses have moved to China since then. So they can consume as much as they ever have but claim they have done their bit for the planet. The Europeans see this as nothing but a trade war. They are seeking to keep what they have while preventing other developing countries from being able to industrialise the way they did.

      1. Europe is doing *far* more than other western nations. The fact that they burned fossil fuels for however many years is irrelevant to any discussion of their values or actions today. Everybody burned fossil fuels. They didn’t know they were doing anything wrong. Notions of climate change, energy depletion, and pollution are very new to the scene. And that’s why China, India, and Brazil *do* know better and should act accordingly.

        1. Exactly. Also the likes of China have benefited by being able to copy the technology created in Europe etc so that they can shortcut a lot of their development (this is how China has gone from basically nothing economically to being the 2nd largest economy is the space of half a century! Something that took the USA 150 years to achieve). China now probably puts out enough greenhouse gases in 2 years than Europe probably did in the whole 19th century!

        2. Balls! The only pathway so far from poverty to wealth for a nation has been through cheap energy so they could industrialise their production. Europe did it and is now trying to pull up the ladder. The climate we have now is the product of the CO2 that has been pumped into it. The fact Europe has moved to a post industrial economy doesn’t excuse what they have done or the impact they have had on the third world and it certainly doesn’t allow them to make rules that will keep the third world in poverty.

  11. I can’t see battery electric vehicles ever taking over from oil, as oil depletes so will road transport, it needs cheap abundant energy, something we are running out of and people with jobs to afford electric cars.

    We should be going for electrified rail, steel on steel for greater efficiency and using roads for local transport from rail heads around the county it would cut CO2 slightly and set us up for a future less reliant on oil and fossil fuels , not that it will happen with John Key and his government,

  12. Carbon use per head of population is the best performance measure for inter country comparison. We really need to be thinking about and acting on this for the sake of generations to come. It’s not ok to say we’re ok and the future can look after itself. Buckminster Fuller was preaching about this in the 1980’s and seemed to have a realistic if idealistic take on solutions. (see “Critical Path”).
    Whether we like it or not we need to wean ourselves of the non-renewable resources dependance that we have industrialized with and move to the next stage of using only the power of the sun to maintain our closed circuit “Spaceship”. We need to distribute the worlds population more evenly and find better methods of feeding ourselves than running tons of water through bovines to produce pounds of food.
    Rushing to exploit the fossilised carbon at the rates we are doing is not a good idea especially when you think in terms of the ammount of energy that was required to produce it. It makes no sense for NZ to rush to get all the petroleum/coal out of the ground in our life time and leave nothing for the generations to come especially when we are not going to use but sell it.

  13. As well as looking at reducing the methane emmisions of Bovines we should be thinking in terms of reducing the role they play in our foodchain. We can live quite successfully without such wasteful protein. We should also look at the binding of carbon into our soils as a way of reducing our carbon footprint as this is not measured at present and will have an increased benefit in water retention and soil health/production at lower costs.

  14. I absolutely agree NZ is not doing enough to lower carbon emissions. NZ might be a small country with few people, but on a per capita basis, NZ emissions are among the highest in the world. Hiding behind the higher emissions of China and the USA is just lazy.
    Yes, the countries in the EU have emitted CO2 for hundreds of years, and coming from a high point of development it’s easier to say something needs to be done. But at least they do. At least they lead this conversation and say what’s being done to this planet is unsustainable and needs to be changed. The US have slowly come to the party, and even China have vaguely agreed to reduce their emissions. China! The country that for a long time has put all its emphasize on economic growth at whatever cost. China’s coal usage has actually started to decrease. NZ on the other hand is saying ‘we’ll do the minimum we can get away with’. Clearly the government here has not arrived in this century yet, or maybe the lobbying is just too strong.
    Yes, emissions reductions in the EU have also come from the collapse of heavy industry in eastern Europe, but they have targets applied to each country. In Germany a good part of the reduction came from the collapse of heavy industry in the former eastern Germany after the reunification, but they have also implemented policies to massively change their electricity production. On a good day (sunny and windy) Germany can now generate 100% of its electricity from renewables! And that’s for 81 million people. They achieved this by putting additional tax on petrol and electricity and subsidising new renewable energy installations. Take a train through Germany and you’ll see thousands of residential houses with solar panels on the roofs. At the same time the policy encouraged people to use less petrol and electricity (I don’t know how effective this was though). Why can’t NZ have policies like these? Also whatever happened to the legislation banning light bulbs with poor efficiency? From memory, Labour passed it and National undid it when they came into power. In the EU, the traditional light bulbs have been phased out.
    Admittedly all is not well in the EU or Germany either. Poland heavily depends on coal for its electricity production and has tried to block progress on emissions targets. Germany has weakened EU car emissions limits due to the lobbying of its well-known manufacturers of heavy cars. But for god’s sake, at least they’re steering in the right direction!
    Come on NZ, do something! Set ambitious targets, set the right policies, give industries the right signals and punish the big emitters. For all those that say it will hurt our economy – it doesn’t have to. The technologies are available to have sustainable economic growth. And think about this: if New Zealand chooses to fall behind, the world will realise and it will damage our “clean green” reputation – and that in return will hurt the economy when the tourists stay away. At least it would also reduce emissions from tourism…

  15. Regarding agricultural emisions, lots of promising research is going on in this area. Eg, from a few days ago in PNAS, a small feed additive has cows producing 30% less methane and actually gaining more weight http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/07/29/1504124112.short We’ve bred for all sorts of things over the years and used new techniques to massively increase per unit production. No reason that these skills can;t be brought to bear on reducing GHG emissions. Indeed, NZ is particulrly well placed given our expertise in agricultural sciences to really make some exceellent progress in this area.

  16. I think if you read this:-
    http://www.marcon.com/print_index.cfm?SectionGroupsID=51&PageID=391
    you will realize not all is what it seems with Germany, they are the 5th biggest user of oil in the world, and why I think it is out of our hands to do much about climate change, not that I don’t think we should try, anything we do is better than nothing, but the limits of growth are coming to play and have been since around 2005. and that’s what will limit CO2 eventually.

    The problem with all the scenarios they only work in a world with less people and a sun powered world is likely to only have 2 or 3 billion not 7 or 8. An interesting program the other day showed how the industrial age started with the power of the Derwent river in Derbyshire UK. a world with three quarters of a million people at the time.

    1. Some scientists recently did a calculation about solar. They worked out something along the lines of a 20% improvement in PV efficiency and covering something along the lines of approx 2% of the worlds Land Surface would produce enough power for current global electricity usage. You could double that to allow for growth from developing countries and double that again to cover new use like transportation etc so all up you’re looking at something like 8% of the worlds land area. There are vast areas all over the world that are deserts which could be used so as to not remove productive land.
      Unfortunately I don’t have the article or the exact figures but from memory. Remember that in a single minute Earth absorbs enough sunlight energy to power all the electrical usage for a year.

      1. I remember reading the article and seeing Spain had the ability to produce a great deal of electricity from solar, I also see they are not doing too well financially and wonder if it will ever eventuate and why I see fossil fuels as so important to the worlds economy and think the powers that be will only tinker around the edges of the problem of global warming.

        I worry for my grand daughter who was born in the year 2000 and I see a future for her that is a reversal of the past that I grew up with, from horses in the late 1930s to high tech, all accomplished on the back of very cheap oil. this is a graph of the cost of oil over the last 100+ years http://chartsbin.com/view/oau we think oils cheap today but it’s still double the average that occurred during the growth periods.

        When the Limits to Growth came out in the 1970’s it was ridiculed by many in the financial world, but has proved to be a fairly good guide to what we can expect if we follow the course we are on, but how do you get off, I’d give up he car and love to see a world of cycling walking and rail transport but think the powers that be and the motoring public world never allow it, until depletion takes it our of human hands that is.

        1. Well, Bryan I agree with all your points re Limits To Growth and historic oil prices etc. Some of us *are* trying to live that way, and that’s why I value the efforts of this blog (and others like it) so much, because we’re working towards making our cities more liveable places and in the process perhaps making car ownership optional again in NZ, which it really hasn’t been – for most people – for a very long time.

          I haven’t given up hope yet, but I don’t see much cause for optimism either!

        2. This is of subject but still shows the scope of doing things our selves that has a future in a world struggling to feed it’s self and also would cut methane from intensive cattle farming, http://www.aquaponics.com.au/ this would be one way of producing protein and feeding our selves in a recycling system, it’s being done around the world but think NZ restrictions on tilapia or trout would stop it dead in the water,but do see lots of hope for the future if we allow some innovation in the way we produce our own food locally. less food miles is good, maybe not what the big producers what to hear but a return to local is what we need.

  17. Bruce, Electricity is not the only form of energy. Envisage earth as a space ship with self sustaining bio systems. It has taken a long time to reach this point and along the way harvested a lot of the suns energy to lay down our fossil fuels. in the last 200 years we have been releasing a huge amount of that fossilized carbon and it has enabled humans to exploit ever increasing technology to enable our weak human frames to perform prodigious feats.
    What we need to do now is to exploit the knowledge we now possess to call a halt/or at least reduce the rate at which we consume these non- renewable resources. We have the technology to do so but the wishes of a few of us is trying to hold us in the existing paradigm. Please let us start to pursue the alternatives to fossil exploitation and start to harness the solar energies directly to fulfill our needs in a sustainable way.
    Knowledge is the key and we need to encourage the use of all our existing knowledge in pursuing a future for all life in our bio system.

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