The Nelson St Cycleway is one of the most exciting projects currently underway in Auckland and will make use of the old disused motorway off-ramp to give people on bikes another way to access the city. The council are now looking for feedback to help shape the design of the ramp so it’s not just an old ramp.
Auckland Council would like your input on the potential streetscape design of the disused Nelson Street off-ramp.
The off-ramp will be transformed into a new cycleway and walkway by the end of the year, forming part of the Nelson Street Cycle Route – a joint project of the NZ Transport Agency and Auckland Transport.
Councillor Chris Darby, the political urban design champion, says “This new walking and cycling route will provide speedy access into the city centre, accompanied by stunning views across the city and harbour. It will be one of the new beacons for biking in Auckland.
“Attractive surface finishes will make it even more distinctive and grab both local and international attention. It will add an important link to our emerging city-wide cycle network and trigger more people to walk or bike when they make their daily travel choices.”
Transforming the off-ramp – closed since 2006 – was one of the projects highlighted in the council’s City Centre Masterplan in 2012, and received strong support.
The route aligns with the shared long-term vision of the NZ Transport Agency, Auckland Transport and Auckland Council to build world-class cycling infrastructure that promotes cycling as a safe and convenient mode of transport.
Barbara Cuthbert, Cycle Action Auckland chair, says “It will be a ‘must ride’ route and loved by Auckland visitors, families, roadies, cruisers and people riding to work and shopping in town. I can see it featuring in tweets already, raising the profile yet again for cycling in Auckland.”
The new cycleway will begin at Upper Queen Street, travel along Canada Street and connect to the off-ramp via a new bridge that is currently under construction. The route will continue down Nelson Street, with phase two next year connecting to Quay Street. It will also connect to the north-western and Grafton Gully cycleways, providing easier and safer access to, from and within the city centre.
The online form asks Aucklanders how they might use the cycleway, and their preferences for the surface treatment – bold, subtle, modern, classic, fun, abstract, or incorporating words or lyrics. It takes two minutes to complete and is available at www.shapeauckland.co.nz until 22 June 2015.
The feedback will help shape the design, along with input from iwi and consideration of safety and technical requirements. This will be included in the off-ramp when it is opened at the end of the year.
The main question is shown below.
This is the concept from the City Centre Master Plan of 2012 (which doesn’t feature a very useful cycle path and I doubt trees would be practical simply on weight grounds.
If only takes a few minutes to complete the survey
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Pretty as it is, I think any concept should realistically include screens. This is going to be a pretty exposed part of the cycle network and it would be a huge waste if it ends up being unusable when the wind gets up, which is often in Auckland.
Was a suggestion to put the clear sided ones like they have along St Marys bay motorway edge to make it a bit more friendly. Sounds pricey though, but would be nice it they did.
Well I have been on it a couple of times and it does not need screens. Rather I am more concerned that if NZTA are allowed full give range to their paranoia about people not-in-cars it will end up being a horrible cage rather than what it should be, and in fact is; just a bridge. It needs no more of a barrier than Hopetoun Viaduct has now above it.
It’s lovely and wide and mostly elevated away from the traffic; a grand place to be in fact. It gets a little noisy under the K Rd overbridge, but otherwise it’s surprisingly pleasant.
True, that’s the problem with a screen or something. I hope a designer can think of a clever way to diffuse strong winds without resorting to blanking off the edges entirely.
What is your obsession with wind about? No different than on any other street in Auckland…
Most other streets have buildings along the edge or some sort of natural wall on at least one side. This one also happens to be high up and quite exposed. Having said that there is quite a bit of angle/tilt on the road itself which may act as a shield against the bulk of the wind coming across it.
Hopetoun bridge directly above it doesn’t seem to suffer from wind issues. I think it will be fine without screens.
I cycle Hopetoun bridge twice per work day. We we get a cyclone and large wind gusts you can get blown around a bit, but the lanes are wide and it’s not too bad. Newton Rd is much worse and the lanes are narrow.
Neilson St ramp will be fine. I’d say leave the surface as is, fix the height of the railings and spend any savings on other cycle projects.
It’s not really ‘high up’. It’s actually underground if you consider the natural topology of the area. It’s only ‘high’ above the bottom of a trench that was dug to push the motorway through the K’Rd ridge.
So certainly for the predominant sou’wester, it will hopefully be fairly protected by be inside the trench. See the google link here to view the high side walls left and right going up to the natural ground level.
I can imagine quite a head/tailwind though when a rare northerly picks up and gets funnelled through the trench.
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.859142,174.756591,3a,75y,335.31h,100.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sC0ys364096fjB5JJaJtuVw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DC0ys364096fjB5JJaJtuVw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D130.82944%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
I agree. It’s much more civilised than i ever expected it to be. Less is more.
I agree with Anthony. Make it a minimal bikeway and save the upgrade for another day.
Wind is hardly ever a problem for bikers. It can be a problem for cars, but you’re pretty safe on a bicycle. I wouldn’t worry about screening it, especially because the view is going to be one of its major draws
Bear in mind that NZTA (and no doubt the Police too) want the off ramp carriage way pretty much kept clear enough that they could route motorway traffic from the adjacent motorway along it should for instance say a major crash, or a fire in the Victoria Park Tunnel require it to be used to get traffic off the motorway.
So bold ideas like planting it full of trees and plants with a windy little path through it are probably not going to be accepted by NZTA who still own the offramp and obviously want to keep it “just in case” rather than handing it over to AT or whatever to do with as they please.
But doesn’t mean can’t do some painting and such on the roadway and the barriers.
Good point Greg. I think tree’s or decoration etc are just a waste of taxpayers money (an example might be $500k that could be used to extend cycle lanes elsewhere). It’s a cycle lane no need to spend additional money to make it look pretty!
The occasional seat wouldn’t go amiss for elderly/kids etc out for a walk. I certainly hope they paint lanes onto it to separate cyclists from pedestrians – none of this shared space rubbish which is crap for cyclists.
I seriously doubt that’s the case Greg, it is completely separate now form the traffic lanes, with physical barriers.
Its removable metal barriers with nuts and bolts between old and existing motorway at western most end of old off ramp – could be removed in 1 hour.
At the nelson street end its cemented raised curb. Doesnt seem like much of an escape route.
I think that’s part of the point of this, they are now giving up on the idea that the ramp will be there as a back up and anyway it has concrete barriers stopping cars getting on there so any attempt to move that would take some time. Anyway it would only be of any use if something took out the existing off ramp
removable metal barrier at one end – see here:
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.859367,174.756777,3a,43.4y,0.6h,77.78t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqixGwbTwMfig1XZQ7YvDfg!2e0
Trees would be great. Think NYCs highline. The vegetation there really adds to the experience.
This can never be the Highline; its in the middle of a motorway. Forget it.
Doesn’t mean vegetation can’t add to the experience.
Meh. I think that would be lame and faux here. Just do it straight. Don’t try too hard. The experience of being on there is good enough, and transgressive.
There are parts of the highline where they’ve done minimal work but it still really ads something. See http://static01.nyt.com/images/2012/08/02/garden/02HIGHLINE_SPAN/Highline1-superJumbo.jpg
A solution like this would still allow emergency use if it ever was needed. It would add a lot of amenity value and wouldn’t be too onerous maintenance wise.
Its probably worthwhile to note that the highline bans cycling completely plus any form of wheeled conveyance like skateboards (except wheelchairs), and dog walking, among other things.
The highline is a park, and a park only. It’s not a transport link. It’s not even faster than walking at street level most of the time.
If we want a highline, we don’t get a cycleway. If we want a cycleway we can’t have a highline…. it’s not a good precedent.
http://www.domusweb.it/content/dam/domusweb/en/architecture/2011/06/10/looking-moving-gathering-functions-of-the-high-line/big_349461_9669_4.%20DSR%20Highline%2011-05%200752_UPD1.jpg
Yes that really shows how different they are. I haven’t been on the HIghline, did it prove very popular as a cycle route? It looks more like a park there, i cant see many cyclists picking that as their route to work, though it would make a lovely Sunday cruise.
One thing i’ll be submitting on is that we shouldn’t let asthetics, pretty wiggly routes like in the council mock-up, impose too much over it’s function as a cycle route. Shouldn’t be a problem, there is plenty of space for a generous direct cycle route and a nice pedestrian environment.
You’re not allowed to bike on the Highline. It’d be near impossible anyway on a warm sunny day with lots of pedestrians about (there were enough around when I walked it in -6 deg). And the only access is via various sets of stairs. Besides, the 8th/9th Ave separated bike lanes are only a couple of blocks away.
Why would the police not use one of the other in-use offramps to get traffic off the motorway if it became blocked in a major disaster? Like say the new Nelson St offramp right next to it? It’s not as if traffic could just seamlessly flow down nelson st and onto the North Shore from the use of this old ramp. You’d need to completely redesign the intersection for starters, unless it’s only for 4×4 who can mount the curb that blocks the exit.
And where are those trees supposed to grow roots?
Well if it’s got a story to tell, it’s the story about how Spaghetti Junction changed the face of inner Auckland.
Given it overlooks some of the most changed parts, it seems appropriate to have some “before” photos of the same views on it for people to compare.
great idea, a few interpretation panels show the suburbs and connectivity that were destroyed.
Great idea. Unlike the photo showing the potential, the path needs to be sufficiently wide to allow commuter cyclists to be travelling at speed, or else people wont use it. It also needs to connect up with other cycle facilities such as Grafton Gully and the North-Western cycleway. Also the “cycleway” along Ian McKinnon Drive is a joke, (low overhanging trees, surface is not smooth and narrow in high speed zones) and the connections into the facility need to be upgraded as part of the project needs to improve. There are some key aspects about cycleways which need to be considered, directness, safety, attractiveness, comfort.
How about a mural on the side facing the motorway depicting miserable cyclists and pedestrians in striped monochrome pajamas behind barbed wire, would give George Wood and Jonathan Coleman a chuckle on the way home
Trees would be great. A real jungle in the urban jungle. Given a full size tree weighs somewhere between 10 and 30 tonnes and the bridge is engineered to hold trucks I don’t think weight would be an issue.
I’m keen on the riders and walkers being highly visible; it’s my view that this use in the middle of the CMJ is pretty subversive. Especially when the traffic is gridlocked….
FWIW I think we should celebrate exactly that, and not get carried away dressing it up as something it’s not. Colour + dramatic lighting (Grafton Gully’s new bridge link looks so good at night thanks to a simple lighting trick) would go a long way, but I even think a concrete surface of varying tones is fine. One of the most memorable photos in the Bruntlett’s Vancouver pressing was the unfussy, bold takeover of exactly this type of structure, cycles right next to cars with just a basic concrete barrier between. Subversion and unapologetic.
Agree. Let’s leave it as basic as possible and use it as a symbol of the use of road space. Use paint or physical dividers for pedestrians and cyclists and that’s it. Higher hand rails so people can linger and look at the surrounding cityscape.
Agreed, leave it as it is except for adding paint. Having walked the Highline numerous times, and knowing that part of NYC, one can’t compare the two.
The proposed image is totally idiotic. This is one place where there is an opportunity for a best practice width cycle way and footpath. Very little of the bridge should actually be adorned.
Yes.
With the wide carriageway at present there is plenty of room to have separate paths for walkers and cyclists, even if only through paint markings on the ground. Don’t clutter it up too much. Free flow for the cyclists and a pleasant walking/viewing area for pedestrians is the way to go.
Footpaths on each side and cycleway right up the middle.
agreed, keep it simple and use the money to extend the cycle network elsewhere
Agree that the full width should be used for paths with no extra clutter, to take advantage of the opportunity for a ‘best practice width cycle way and footpath’. Just a beautiful, smooth surface with nice wide lanes – clearly marked for pedestrians and cyclists, possibly with small raised bump between cycle & walking path to deter wandering pedestrians when they think they have the bridge to themselves. I think money that might be spent on greenery adornment would be better spent on more paths and linking up the network.
Something cheap. We can do pretty when we don’t have pressing issues that need addressing now.
Given the choice of tarting it up or using the cash to improve bus throughput at a junction somewhere it’s an easy choice
No, not something cheap. Something authentic. That will won’t cost much. But never choose cheap, and never accept the lame idea that good and cost effective are mutually exclusive.
The motorway gulley is a huge wind funnel bringing the westerlies or sou’westers, so there does need to be some shielding from that side, be it planting or some other mechanism. (Hopetoun St bridge is in line with those winds, not at right angles across them)
Planting – absolutely. Part of a planned bird/insect/bee path network crossing the city. Also to reduce the noise / drone from the motorway traffic, not to mention to help off-set the fumes generated below. The bigger trees to the sides, not the middle, graduating down towards the centre of the road creating a valley like oasis of calm in the centre – and reducing the things for baddies to hide behind (CPTED)
Separated pedestrian and cycle paths though for sure, perhaps even trialling different methods as a research project for future projects. No fun for oldies or dog walkers having cyclists whizzing past them or crashing into them because they’ve suddenly stopped and stepped sideways to look at something.
A nice double up as a green park with bench seats and patches of grass for the residents of the nearby vertical slums (i mean cheap apartments) at the top of Nelson and Hobson Streets.
Some Kowhai trees would be nice the flowers would provide some food for the local Tui and would be visually attractive.
Still don’t agree. I love trees and nature and stuff, but not everywhere, and not, in my view, here: stunted and tortured pot plants are often sadder than good honest asphalt.
Some innovative lighting is all that is needed.
Give walkers the narrow left land lane, cyclists the rest. It will look great just filled with people.
+1
Having just cycled through a thick pea-souper of a fog on the Northwestern cycleway, all I want for Xmas is decent lighting – including on the off ramp!
Make it wide and as straight as possible. Few lookouts on the way with seats and shrubbery and maybe a funnel to pee on the motorists stuck in traffic below.
I think it is a great addition to the walking/cycling networks of Auckland. Me and my sweetie, (both of us pensioners), regularly use the N/W foot/cycle path to access K Rd and the CBD. As walkers, we are happy to share with cyclists, but we do need some separation and some protection for both sets of users whose needs are very different.
The other issue with plants/tree’s on this is that they would require extensive/expensive upkeep (since they will not be growing naturally in the ground but in limited space above concrete). Leaves etc will need to be cleared regularly to avoid a slippery surface – riding a road bike over wet leaves isn’t pleasant or very safe). As mentioned any plants take away space and add to the cost of the project. That is money that isn’t able to be spent elsewhere on PT.
Rainbow Road please.
Like Mario Kart?
+1
Just open the thing. It doesn’t really need any trimmings.
There are a few interesting options out there. This is one example:
https://twitter.com/WgtnCC/status/607667863835443200
And this is another:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9bjmE8CQAAxLRF.jpg:large
Let’s create a space, but do it cheaply and easily.
Why is it that the spin doctors and others always over embellish a concept in the drawings?
If you are going to plant trees and shrubs on concrete, you will soil on site plus water access all year round, so why make the cycle path so narrow the gardeners cannot get their truck on to the site? There will be cyclists and walkers who end up getting hurt on such a shared environment. There have been a number of accidents on the Westhaven promenade – just ask the Marina managers. How will an ambulance access the cycle way?
Keep it simple with low maintenance costs and functional with lots of room for the lycra clad fast riders and for children on their first bike.
The late Russell Dickson once showed me a crash analysis he had done to find out how much worse the right hand Nelson off-ramp was. He showed me it was actually operating better than the other off-ramps! That didn’t stop someone spending public money to ‘fix’ it.
I always found it to be fine; I just got into the fast lane somewhere around the Bombays and stayed there until I found myself flung out all ready for the U-turn into Ponsonby. Brain disengaged, like most drivers.
That’s actually illega, first rule in the road code.
Hmmm, cycle lane in the sky. I’d say it needs a fast lane, and a slow lane, for starters. And for a fast lane, it needs to be a smooth lane, frequently swept. Fast for those lycra-clad speedy commuters, and that means no plant boxes etc to get in the way etc. On the other side, a nice meandering stop and start lane, with places to sit and smell the flowers. But they’re quite separate needs.
To reassure on a few fronts, we don’t envisage the type of extensive planting in the ‘potential’ image from the City Centre Masterplan as being practical at this stage or desirable… for the reasons so many of you have made.
However this is an opportunity to do something that can stand out visually, and celebrate what this project is doing for cycling and walking.
You can fill in the survey here: http://bit.ly/1KPHjb6
Where do we make our suggestions? The only place possible seems to be the “other” box on the first page.?
Yes that’s the place. Keeping the survey short and simple to make sure we get a good response, but there’s room for suggestions there if you want. Have to manage expectations on what can be done here though as there are quite a few technical and safety constraints.
So I’m pretty keen on keeping it simple, but also like the idea of that Highline.
Can you do a shield of native flax and mixes wild grasses / flowers for bees and birds in a strip down one side that will mitigate wind. But also have a separated path (separated by a painted line) for pedestrians of the foot, on the other side where they can stop and look over the edge at their leisure. That leaves down the middle available to be a plain road for cyclists to get on with getting on.
I liked Russell’s idea the other day about painting play, FF, or pause symbols on the path so people know what speed to go depending on what ‘lane’ they are using.
Hrm, it looks like, to get from Nelson st offramp to nelson st, you are going to have to cross at a pedestrian crossing to get to the other side of the new car off-ramp, and then a second crossing across Union St. Very disappointing to have two lots of crossing that will surely slow things down. I had presumed that the old offramp to the cycle way would just become another phase of crossing directly across the intersection, kinda like a the bottom of the grafton gully cycleway, somewhere on beach road where it switches from one side of the road to the other before abruptly ending.