The government has announced it is restarting the process to protect the route for an a third harbour crossing that raises a huge number of questions.

New Waitemata Harbour crossing future proofed

Minister of Transport, Simon Bridges, has taken steps to future-proof the route for an additional Waitemata Harbour crossing in view of the rapid growth Auckland is set to undergo in the next 20 years.

“I have asked the NZ Transport Agency to recommence work on what will be a critical transport link for Auckland and the upper North Island.

“The preferred route for the additional crossing is a tunnel east of the Auckland Harbour Bridge between the Esmonde Road interchange on the North Shore, and Victoria Park Tunnel and Central Motorway Junction in central Auckland.

“Advisors are preparing for the designation process and are putting together a business case focusing on the timing of construction and potential funding options,” Mr Bridges says.

In 2013 the Government announced its support for a tunnel in preference to a bridge.

“With increasing demands on Auckland’s transport network, the Government will continue to work closely with its local government partners to provide a resilient network and wider transport choices,” Mr Bridges says.

The NZ Transport Agency says an additional crossing is likely to cost between $4 billion and $6 billion, and is likely to be needed between 2025 and 2030. A construction start date will depend on a number of factors, including the rate of freight and traffic growth.

Mr Bridges says that the additional Waitemata Harbour crossing will work in conjunction with the existing Auckland Harbour Bridge.

The business case will look at a range of public transport options, including heavy rail. The NZ Transport Agency and Auckland Transport will be working together on this part of the project, including any necessary route protection for public transport.

“The Government knows that investment in all modes of transport will ease congestion and bring lasting benefits for Auckland and for New Zealand as a whole,” Mr Bridges says.

The NZTA last studied an additional crossing five years ago and the reports from that study are available here. The questions I have are in no particular order.

With construction depending on factors such as traffic growth, will the new business case take into account the actual traffic volumes from the last 8+ years. After almost 50 years on constant increases, traffic volumes fell after 2006 and have been so stubbornly flat that they are still less than they were in 2003. Not only did the previous business case – produced in 2010 – predict growth that hasn’t materialised but they also used a model to predict the volume for the starting year of their prediction (2008) which was well above the observed actual volumes.

AHB Volumes

Related, what will be the employment and traffic volume targets the project must achieve. After all if the City Rail Link is going to have bogus targets foist upon it then why shouldn’t the single most expensive project we’ve ever considered.

With the project costing between $4 and $6 billion how will we pay for it. To put things in perspective we currently spend about $3.4 billion on transport per year for the entire nation and that includes costs for state highways, NZTA contributions towards local roads, road policing, and of course NZTA contributions towards public transport. Within that budget we spend $1 to $1.4 billion on state highway improvements. In short an AWHC would suck up massive amounts of cash and that would impact on a huge numbers of projects from all around the country. Even if built as a PPP the ongoing payments would likely cripple our transport budgets for decades. As an example Transmission Gully which is costing around $850 million will have repayments once it opens of about $125 million a year. AWHC would be significantly more than that.

Will the business case achieve a Benefit Cost Ratio of greater than the 0.3 it did last time (Answer: presumably it will because of the changes since then to the NZTA’s Economic Evaluation Model allowing for a longer assessment period and reduced discount rate – still won’t be above 1 though)

AWHC 2010 BCR

It’s all very well talking about a horrifically expensive tunnel under the harbour but what constantly seems to be ignored is what happens on either end of the tunnel. Studies prior to the 2010 one have talked about how any new crossing would also require major expansions to the Northern Motorway to cope with the increased capacity thrown at. How much is it going to cost to duplicate SH1 to Albany and beyond? If not then we just get this situation.

WestConnex

What impact will the $4 billion we’ve been spending to create the Western Ring Route have on traffic and travel behaviour. At the very least we should probably be waiting till after that work is completed and traffic volumes have settled down before we do any analysis of traffic demand over the harbour.

WRR project location

Regardless of how much it costs or what the benefits are one fact that can’t be ignored is that this project will have major impacts on the environment it passes through. It effectively creates a new motorway out in Shoal Bay with all the red hatched parts in the images below being reclamation and the blue parts being viaducts. I wonder what the likes of the Herald’s John Roughan will say about – note:  I still don’t think he’s admitted he was wrong about the Northern Busway.

AWHC north of Onewa AWHC Sulhur Beach

Further if some of the residents of Northcote got so upset about the idea of Skypath, I wonder what they’ll think of having a mini spaghetti junction on their doorstep. Even more so when they realise that the two square boxes on the image above where the new lanes change from tan to purple colour (to the right of the 1 symbol) are 35m high (~10 storey) ventilation stacks for the exhaust fumes inside the tunnel. There is also one on the city side next to the current Air NZ building (below).

AWHC Westhaven

One mini positive is that the government are at least saying the business case will consider a rail crossing however in my mind the NZTA also need to assess options that involve building a PT only crossing first. A dedicated PT crossing along with Skypath are the real missing modes across the harbour. This is especially important given the huge growth we’re seeing in bus passengers from the shore and in the morning we’re seeing up to 30-40% of people crossing on a bus – up from 18% in 2001. This growth in PT is likely to continue for some time yet, especially once the new network eventually makes PT much more useful to a wider variety of people. One risk is I suspect there are quite a few people behind the scenes that will think an acceptable solution to PT across the harbour is just to leave it on the existing bridge.

Car and Bus trips across AHB
The 2010 and 2011 car results seem like they could be incorrect but I can’t confirm it

Overall route protection itself isn’t a bad thing but any suggestion that this is project is needed any time soon is fanciful thinking. There are far greater priorities in Auckland such as the CRL and significant upgrades to PT in many other areas. The government should be focusing on getting those projects consented and underway first.

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99 comments

  1. I’m going to jump in with the obvious ones:

    * What justification is govt/NZTA using for this? What problem is trying to be solved?
    * How can we afford this? What are we giving up for it?
    * Why does this not have growth related targets for implementation?
    * What is the ‘tax payers association’ stance on this?
    * Does Auckland have the ability to say ‘no’ to this?

    I read this last night and I’m still fuming over it. I can’t fathom what thinking process results in this. Who actually thinks that this is going help get people around? I’m actually really, really upset that we have a government and transport agency that cares so little about efficiency, health, safety and the environment.

    1. I’m with you on all of this. This seems to be another dose of corporate welfare for the road construction industry and its handmaiden consultants and financiers. Certainly there is nothing I’m aware of in the traffic data that suggests this project is urgent, and as the post points out, didn’t we just spend a bunch of money on SH20 to get traffic off SH1?

  2. What a colossal waste of money very much how the nzta can show done leadership and put forward rail only as a solution

  3. A second crossing using the existing motorway network is not the answer. Ask anyone who uses the bridge – the congestion is on the motorways leading to and from the bridge. The bridge itself flows reasonably ok once you are on it.

    If there is to be a new crossing, put it somewhere else to relieve the stress on the motorway system.

    Maybe a NEW clip on section to the existing bridge for trains and buses might be the right idea. Or an underground crossing for trains. Trains to the North Shore would alleviate pressure on the motorway and bridge – better than buses.

    1. Yeah a rail tunnel or bridge makes more sense, but they should be funding the CRL first as that would be required to run trains to the north shore, at least as far as heavy rail is concerned?

      More roads are not going to do squat for SH1 as most traffic goes into the cities mostly 2-lane roads as illustrated well in the diagrams from twitter in this article.

      Also slightly off topic I just realised the NW SH16 courseway is being upped to 11 lanes (if counting bus lanes), which is complete insanity and will look horrible. Auckland is going to look like a massive tennis court if things keep going the way they are… and all for completely illogical PV lane-overkill.

    2. Not sure the current foundations of the bridge would be able to handle the extra loading of train clip-on’s, also heavy rail would be unlikely due to the required gradient. Rail tunnels are definitely the way to go for this crossing.

      And yes, another road crossing is stupid here.

  4. There appears to be two sets of tunnels – a small one from esmond that goes into the CBD and a large set from Onewa (but misses onewa road) that goes to links into the southern

    1. I believe the tunnels near Esmonde are actually rail tunnels which were in the NZTA’s plans with this crossing. The tunnel at Onewa is the road one.

      1. Interesting – separate tunnels so can be built separately?

        smaller bores cheaper than a larger bore than includes road and rail (not that road is needed yet)?

      2. If I see one positive coming out of this, it would be to sharpen the thinking around rail to the shore.

        I assume the CRL allows for a spur to run through to Wynyard and this would provide for heavy rail onwards to Aotea bus station?

        Aotea has plenty of land around it so presumably could become an interchange between buses and/or light rail on the busway, and then heavy rail to the CRL. Would mean in the future something like bus to northern busway stations like Albany, transfer to light rail/bus, then at Aotea transfer again to heavy rail across harbour and to destinations beyond. Think it would make more sense then to look at heavy rail on the shore (unlikely) or make the north shore tunnels carry light rail.

        1. Would be stupid to spur from CRL and gradient would prevent it. Better to run trains Akoranga to Aotea and transfer at Aotea.

  5. I did write a nice long post the but ‘post comment’ box disappears (cant scroll down to see it). Anyone else having this issue?

    1. press the ‘tab’ key and it will cycle through the fields/buttons – eventually the invisible frame will scroll and you can see the Post Comment button again.

    2. Press your Tab key (twice) after you have entered your email and name. The first press will advance the cursor to the “Website” line, and the second to the “Post Comment” button. It should reappear and you can click it or just press Enter.

  6. There is some good in this but mostly bad:

    Good:
    -at some stage a new crossing will be needed,either rail only or as a replacement for the existing bridge. This is the mostly route so good it is protected.
    -it is good to have designation, if only so Northcote point residents know there will be progress some time in the next 50 years. The funny thing for them is they will get absolutely no benefit from the tunnel, yet it will ruin their environment even more (than the existing 8 lane motorway).

    Bad:
    – the bridge isn’t at capacity at the moment. the issue is getting to the bridge and getting off the motorway
    – this may make people think it will happen and then they will start arguing harbour crossing vs CRL etc

    Question:
    – Is this designation just reserving the space or is it required to be used, or costs incurred, in a set period of time
    – what are the transport targets required to start preliminary work (I assume there will be similar targets as with the CRL).
    – What other projects are being considered to push out that date (ie. dedicate bus lanes on the bridge, for rail freight, etc to reduce growth of cars and trucks on the bridge).

    1. > What other projects are being considered to push out that date

      Exactly this – Trucks can go on the shiny new billion dollar highway. Provision of dedicated bus lanes the length of the shore to town and real rapid transit services throughout could increase utilisation of the existing bridge by [insert value here]. We can offset the cost of a new bridge until it’s actually projected to be at capacity (REAL capacity, not SOV capacity).

      When will we have a government with a planner or transport engineer running the transportation portfolio? I’m tired of lawyers with specific notions. This applies across the ‘colour’ spectrum.

      1. The Ministry of Social Development now has a Chief Science Advisor. From their website:

        Professor Poulton fills the new role of Chief Science Advisor and will work to improve the use of evidence in policy development and advice.

        Surely all ministries need such an Advisor, or better, independent advisory team? Or do these people exist, without any influence?

    2. Yes good to plan for replacement which will be due within 50 years. If they build the tunnels as planned then a future replacement for the bridge would likely only need to be 6 lanes rather than the current 8 as the tunnels will also provide 6 lanes giving a total of 12.
      By including rail in the design this provides the capacity of a whole another bridge (or more if used to it’s potential).
      As for Northcote residents, they will benefit from the tunnels in that their drive to the bridge will be quicker.
      While we will shortly have a proper alternative to SH1 via Upper Harbour if something were to happen to the Harbour Bridge (Earthquake, Tsunami, Eruption, Ship Collision, Terrorism etc) then Auckland would be royally screwed. Yes train tunnels would help out greatly however this ignores the freight etc by trucks (freight trains in tunnels aren’t always a good mix especially if they are metro passenger train tunnels) and that there are a lot of people who are going to other places besides the CBD or rail network etc.
      From the plans it looks like they are planning on using TBM tunnels rather than the more common immersed tunnel (usually used for larger tunnels). Immersed tube could have traffic above and rail beneath it. I wonder if this project is being overbuilt perhaps?
      Sydney tunnels have only 2 lanes in each direction. I guess it comes down to cost e.g. if 2 tunnels could be built with 2 lanes in each direction plus rail tunnel for say $3-4b but $4-6b for 3 lanes each direction then that would be potentially a huge difference. If it is not much difference to build the extra lanes then better to do that as adding more later will be more expensive and short sighted (ala clip on lanes for Harbour Bridge).
      In terms of paying for it well it should be tolled to pay for it. With inflation being so low right now in reality the RBNZ should do what most other countries are doing right now and print about $3b p.a for the next 2 years and use this money for these big projects (CRL, Harbour Crossing). It would get inflation back into the mandated 1-3% whilst lowering the NZD by about 4% (another aim of the RBNZ and Govt), long term it wouldn’t be inflationary either as it would be mostly a fixed asset so not really adding to consumer inflation and would increase productivity.

  7. No mention of rail in these tunnels? And won’t the harbour bridge one day need to be demolished due to age? I think it’s good planning to protect the route but yeah, this project shouldn’t be top priority at the moment.

  8. This is just national pandering to its blue voters in the north shore…
    There has been propaganda and many people in Auckland do believe that more motorways reduce congestion.
    The people in the shore have to just look at the statistics of having PT options ie the bus lane and how much it has reduced traffic

    1. I’m a blue voter on the North Shore and think we should only proceed with bus/rail tunnel when/if the number of vehicles on the bridge gets to 200,000.

      Many people here ask “why do people who like PT get called lefties?” but I could also ask why as a righty (and a North Shore one) do you think that I want a road tunnel to be built?

      1. No offense intended I’m sure. It’s just that as a rule, blue types are more in favour of roads (or against PT) than the red types. But the thinking voter takes issues on their own merits and does not throw an ideological blanket over all of them. Good to know there are some of those around.

    2. We can’t afford it, and it’s another disaster for our harbour and the natural environment that we are blessed to have in Auckland. At a nationally significant cost of $6B and precious little return, this is exactly the type of spending that has made all New Zealanders so much poorer than we used to be.

      Premo I agree with you that it’s pandering to the Shore – right now it’s the only visible proposal for improving transport for the Shore and that’s probably why it’s getting traction.

  9. This is nuttery.

    However, it won’t be stopped without organisation. The madmen in the MoT, NZTA, and Minister’s office want this so badly. I think that Gen Zero and others will have to form a coalition of powerful organisations who have strong concerns about the cost and nature of this project.

    Otherwise it goes ahead.

  10. Is there any mention of what happens to Victoria Park Viaduct?

    Also, wouldn’t it be better to connect the tunnel to the port and SH16, than dumping more traffic into central motorway junction?

  11. One word – Diversion, a diversion from all their other woes, Northland being a prime one. This is a pipe dream , a cheque they know they will never have to cash, set down for some time way off in the never never, sounding all progressive.

    Best ignored, X Factor is far more pressing for us idiots.

  12. Well NZTA will be wrapping up Waterview soon and will need another juggernaut of a project to keep Fletchers & their consultants happy. Non elected local government officials driving these projects? A reputation of hemorrhaging money (approx $20 mill inc design fees) for 1.97km of cycle way at Grafton gully, excuse my maths and my estimation skills but at $10 million a km, surely you could have implemented several on road facilities with more connections and more KMs….. why are these people allowed to waste money so frivolously on a continued basis…..is there no auditor general ?

    1. That amount included three projects, the biggest of which was the Grafton Gully cycleway
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11320161

      “surely you could have implemented several on road facilities with more connections and more KMs” – you are right. But so long as Auckland businesses and residents scream blue murder every time a small amount of space is taken away from “their” publicly maintained space which they use for storage of private property, it becomes very difficult politically to get those built.

      The real problem of course is that AT roll over every time these protests happen. That means that a very small group of people can hold up a project with spurious claims of carmageddon (e.g. on Carlton Gore road the cycle lane project has been delayed for ages to find one person somewhere to park). On the flip side, even massive public support (e.g. SkyPath) is not enough to get a project through if a small group of locals (especially wealthy, politically connected locals) opposes it.

      The other issue is that small incremental projects don’t have a big ribbon cutting ceremony associated with them, so most politicians aren’t interested. I can tell you that often it is easier to argue for a multi-million dollar cycling/walking bridge than a small change in street layout to make cycling to school easier for children.

      Step one is there needs to be a general principle that all arterial roads are free of parking – any parking that exists is there on sufferance until a better use is found. The debate then becomes what is an arterial road but for most that is obvious.

      What is needed in Auckland is the hardest thing of all – a change in culture.

    2. $20 million???????? I’ve used it and it is NOT paved in gold but it should be. Talk about taking the piss and the shirt of the back of ratepayers. Who is connected with these contractors? I be that would be a very interesting story!

      1. There seemed to be a lot of earthworks, retaining walls and the underpass in that cost right? $20mill seems pretty reasonable to me. That is not a cheap project, it involves a lot of work, being by the road corridor I could imagine there was a few services they may have had to moved, relocated, located etc as well. Heck one strike of a fiber cable would set them back $80k.

  13. It is fine that NZTA are future proofing the route so Northcote residents will be fully notified that the tunnels *might* get built. IMO, the tunnels probably won’t get built, but it is good to set the area aside for now.

    As for the ‘city roads’ diagram, that is totally misleading. The tunnels will feed into spag junction, which is an inner bypass of the cbd. Not all traffic will funnel into the cbd and you guys know it. I expect a bit better of you. However, it is true that SH1 probably will need an extra four lanes from Esmonde Road to Albany.Maybe sh1 needs another two lanes between spag junction and SEART too.

    On the other hand, if the tunnels were built, the Harbour Bridge could go down to five/six lanes with two bus lanes + a footpath and we could demolish the Victoria Park flyover which could be good i guess.

    1. Yes tunnels go into the Spag Bowl… but only to the same lanes that the bridge links to today. So zero extra capacity through to the other motorways or anywhere beyond the CBD, ergo all the harbour tunnel does is let more lanes of the bridge connect to Fanshawe St and the other CBD streets. Surely you know this by now?

      So yes, all extra traffic capacity will funnel into the CBD, and the diagram is very appropriate.

    2. You know full well the diagram isn’t from Auckland but a representation and as you then proceed to say, the CMJ and SH1 will need upgrading so the graphic is still a relatively accurate representation.

    3. Ah, so we spend some 4-6bil to turn the existing bridge into an off ramp? Then what, it loses State Highway classification and becomes the responsibility of local ratepayers to maintain? Love to see George Wood explain that math to his constituents. Perhaps if those North Shore MPs are so keen on this they will volunteer a targeted rate for the Shore to carry that burden I to infinity…? No? Really? They don’t like that idea; surprise me…. Oh and the toll on the new crossing, sorry did we forget to mention that?, yes the one that only goes towards operating costs…

      1. Patrick you continue to diverge into this over emotional rubbish every time Addition Harbour crossing is mentioned. Get your facts straight. Even if the bridge was treated as a ‘off-ramp’ it would never be vested in council as it would still be state highway. Have a look up on how designations work before, try the Auckland Council GIS to see where these are, spreading such misinformation again.

        1. What, like SH1 between Long Bay and Silverdale? I mean what used to be SH1 and is now isn’t since the motorway went in. Or Fred Taylor Dr in Westgate, that used to be SH16? Or Upper Harbour Dr that used to be SH18?

          In fact can you name a single road that got replaced by a new motorway and stopped being the strategic link that got kept as a state highway?

        2. Swing and a miss. You glazed over the off-ramp bit but I suppose picking and choosing which part of a comment to refute is fairly synonymous with this blog

        3. What off ramp bit? Patrick is speaking figuratively, its obviously a little more than just an off ramp. If a new SH1 tunnel was built then the existing route becomes a 5km long road between the North Shore and downtown. It ends up the same as Great North Rd after they built the SH16 extension in the 70s, or Great North Rd and SH1.

        4. You don’t honestly believe that the Harbour Bridge, the only way in from the north-shore to the CBD, which is a limited access motorway would be transferred to council? The mind boggles

        5. Shaun Tee – The moment it’s not on the state-highway network…yes. That’s how it works so far why would it work differently here?

        6. The Albany Expressway which is access controlled got transferred to Auckland Council after it stopped being state highway one, that was a motorway when it was built.

        7. Why wouldn’t the NZTA hand over the bridge to the council. They’re doing the same thing with all other state highways that are bypassed. Even the old SH1 from Orewa to Puhoi which is the legally required free alternative to the toll road has already been handed over to AT. The reason the NZTA want to do it is simple, it halves their maintenance costs for that section of road. Can’t see the bridge being any different if the state highway is a tunnel under the harbour connecting directly up to the CMJ

      2. Shaun NZTA spend over a billion a year on SH operations, not new work, just running and maintaining what they already have. Every time they build something new that cost increases, so they are extremely keen to shuck off all duplicated routes onto local authorities. They have the Minister breathing down their necks to find ever more funds to spend on glamour new highways. Already the Auckland ratepayer can look forward to getting the dangerous and expensive to maintain current SH1 north of Puhio to fund. And the long term outlook for fuel tax revenue is negative, as we drive less and more efficiently.

        There is a deeply mistaken idea that roads are built then we have them forever for free. This is nonsense. One of the reasons that local authorities all over the country are are struggling under increasing debt and rates rise pressure is because a shift of ongoing burdens from the state to regions. All governments love this; it enables them to spend with the local council having to cop the pressure.

        I look forward to the day that AC and AT have the balls to say they don’t want burdens like these anymore. Let NZTA keep the responsibility of maintaining the Bridge; they’re good at it.

  14. Build in and they will come is all well and good if the rest of the network can handle it. It cant in its current state so that is the last thing we want.

    if the tunnel is built, the northern and southern motorway will also need to be upgraded so the actual cost of the project is well over the $5B proposed.

    I agree that at some point it will be needed, even if it is because the current bridge needs to be replaced. But in the mean time, we have to propose solutions that the whole network can handle – the bridge is not the worst part of the SH1 motorway.

  15. I think our best hope might be that a more sensible government is in power at the appropriate time, and elects to build a rail connection first. Once a rail line is in place, I think it would be a long, long, long time before traffic volumes rise to the level that another bridge is needed (a $4-$6 billion one anyway).

  16. Everyone who is saying “I agree at some point it will be needed” are wrong headed. Firstly, the projections are not going that way! Secondly, as a road project this would make a real mess of that part of the harbour so if we really believe more harbour crossing capacity is required we should be asking aourselves; “How can we meet the needs of people wanting to get across the harbour (in some multiple of current numbers) in ways that mean we don’t need to spend $5b and mess up our foreshore even further.. Go get creative.

    1. I totally agree that an additional harbour crossing will be needed, I believe we need one for cycling and walking (skypath) and one for trains at some point (train tunnels), disagree that we will need any more car lanes crossing this part of the harbour within the next 50years however.

  17. Let’s whip out a razor from our friend Occam…

    WE DON’T NEED ANOTHER FUCKING HARBOUR CROSSING.

    Run metro rail from Aotea Stn across the existing bridge to the Busway stations.

    For even the low low 4$B cost we could get; the CRL, rail to the Shore, shit tons of cycle lanes and still have change left!

    Do these people all work on behalf on construction companies and foreign banks?

    I can’t think of any other explanation…

    1. How does it go across the bridge? I’m pretty sure the gradient is too step for heavy rail, and not sure the foundations can withstand much more weight. Heck the pavement ATM needs to be ground off and replaced frequently just to keep the weight down! I’m pretty sure the foundations of the bridge would be at max capacity once Skypath is built or even before hand. There is a lot of engineering that would be involved, which would most likely come to the conclusion that another crossing is needed for rail, lets just take out the road portion.

        1. Although there is advantages of light rail, I would definitely rather heavy rail on the northern busway line.

          But more to that, is the capacity of the harbour bridge to carry the loading. No-one has really tackled this point as of yet. The structural ability of the bridge to take the extra loading is a very important factor.

        2. I think weight wise it’s no problem- may be in that article or the other?

          I’d prefer heavy rail too but that’s 4 billion more. Not worth it I reckon…

        3. Considering the extent that NZTA are going to with reducing loading’s on the bridge ATM, it would seem to suggest otherwise. Although this might be more to reduce the need for extensive structural strengthening in addition to what has already been done. However even if that is the case, there would be a pretty significant extra cost, especially if the foundations need to be strengthened as extra piling in this location is not an easy task.

        1. El Jefe, amigo, civility is a virtue, especially in public, not to mention el mundo total.

  18. The city centre seems to be reviving. Quick, send in more cars to kill it!

    But seriously, we build that bridge and then what? Where are all those cars going next? Are we going to turn Fanshawe Street and Cook street into motorways? Or build an additional Newmarket Viaduct too?

    And the other way. The highway to the north is already congested right now in the evenings. So let’s widen this one too?

    So if this bridge gets built, we need another round of highway building to get any benefit from the bridge.

    Here’s how I imagine the ensuing conversation with the people like Roughan:

    – Hey, we are going to carve even more pieces out of school ground and bush reserves
    – What?!
    – and we’re going to do some more reclamation.
    – Outrageous! We must stop it!
    – But, it’s for CARS. Think of the CARS!
    – Oh, ok. No problem then.

  19. If a rail link is built to the shore and the majority of the current busload is fed into it then that will take a lot of buses off the bridge. plus the quicker more efficient journey will probably pull some more people out of their cars, this plus the impact of the western ring route and traffic volumes could drop back to what they were 20 years ago.

    1. As stated so eloquently above, it’s nuttery.

      Not only have we proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that what the North needs is rapid transit ( see busway, see popular, see reduction in traffic) but where exactly are all the people that would be needed to even remotely justify this thing?

      The shore has 20% of the population, the shore has said no to density, even when density happens ( which it will, despite the luddites) we don’t want them to drive anyway, because “liveable city”. 6 billion dollars, it beggars belief.

  20. Paint two lanes in the bridge as bus lanes. Cost 200.000$, time 1 week. Problem solved. Give the remaining 4.8 Billion dollars to me as consultant fee.

  21. Would the maths work that we could build larger tunnels if we tore down the bridge and replaced the existing motorway in St Marys Bay and Northcote Point with intensive housing? Surely that land is worth billions! Maybe instead of tearing down the bridge, intensive terraced housing on the bridge – think of the fantastic views.

  22. Has anyone looked at the expected lifespan and maintenance costs of the current bridge? I remember looking at it a few years ago, and the current bridge is going to need a major retrofit within the next decade or two.

    1. There is on-going maintenance work that is continuously being undertaken on the bridge, including annual painting, cutting and replacing of steel members and components etc. The costs are quite large but in theory the work is continuous it could last quite a while. The bridge loading’s however are a concern, the paving is re-done quite often due to the allowable thickness on the bridge deck due to weight. They also need to be careful when painting the bridge to keep the application thickness down not to increase loading to excessively already.

      There is a certain amount of strengthening possible but in terms of costs to achieve may not be worthwhile.

  23. The correct route for a 2nd harbour crossing is from the area next to Vector Arena, under the port and straight across to the Naval Base.

    Ship the navy off to somewhere else (these days you wouldn’t put a high value military target in a residential area!). There exists a LOT of land that can be redeveloped to proper high rises (dual aspect) all the way through the fairly mundane low-rise residential areas of Belmont, Narrowneck, Bayswater and Hauraki. There’s a swampy estuary that can be filled in, another that can be made into a proper beach… then Bam, you’ve arrived in Takapuna.

  24. Wouldn’t it be easier to pull the bridge down and replace it. It’s not going to last more than another 50 years anyway.

      1. Essentially saving 4-6 billion dollars.

        That we don’t have. But we could borrow it. Oh yes we could borrow it.

        What’s the equivalent of NOT borrowing 6 billion over 20 years?

        12 billion, 15?

        Someone wants to put us in a big Ol debt hole

      2. Eventually though the maintainence costs will exceed the cost of paying off a new bridge. Surely a low level bridge with a smaller gradient designed for all types of users would be more useful. You don’t se many people maintaining and driving their 1950 vintage cars anymore.

        1. You do see plenty living in 1950s houses, working in 1950s buildings, walking in 1950s parks etc, using 1950s water supply, 1950s infrastructure, and of course train stations, wharves, and all sorts of infrastructure.

          Most of the bridges in Europe are hundreds of years old, and still in use.

        2. No shortage of 100 year old house.

          People even pay a premium for them.

          Egyptian architects used to design buildings to last 1000 years…

  25. So that would mean the Sydney Harbour Bridge and Golden Gate Bridge are due for replacement around 2030.

  26. This report leaves out key factors as to reasoning. It make the solution seem idiotic. I have personal insight from a friend Fulton Hogan road Engineering who mandates traffic flow issues. When you realize the overall endeavor it makes more sense.

    1. Aah, traffic flow is mandated by someone at Fulton Hogan. And for all these years we’ve been trying to explain it with reference to location, habits, desires, the price of oil, the comparative ease of alternatives….

    2. Like future population increases and demands for transport. A bridge dosnt appear overnight. 10 years people! Think what Auckland was like 10 years ago. DId you have to wait 30mins in a queue just to get on the bridge back then? Were stress fractures showing? One incident and that entire route gets shut down for hours! Future plans calling for more density mean more demand on roads. If you look abroad at density and roading demands – Auckland is pathetic and desperate for action.

  27. Cut the cost in half and deliver heavy rail tunnels to the shore + CRL (required anyway) with the same cost. That is more needed, as the NEX is struggling with demand, sure more double decks will help but only for a few more years, the car side of things as pointed out is flat so it shouldn’t require more attention, removal of many buses across the bridge and more cars gone to a reliable rail network will reduce bridge traffic massively further, along with massive capacity removing the need to queue for a service at peak or events, and trucks can be banned from the clip-ons to reduce ware on the bridge if need be.

      1. I agree. If we can encourage heavy trucks to bypass the bridge using the Western Ring Road then we can prolong the life of the bridge while also reducing traffic flow through spaghetti junction. And if we can rationalise the tunnels to rail-only then we can save a fortune on their construction and operating costs, and greatly reduce the damage to the natural environment around Shoal Bay.

        But with the current priorities of AT and NZTA, it looks like we’ll be stuck with more roads. It’s a real pity that AT’s planning continues to neglect public transport improvements for North Shore users – this just embeds the current driving preference which in turn fuels the expensive and addictive appetite for roading upgrades.

        1. Well NZTA claim the western ring route will reduce SH1traffic by a massive 10%!
          So there’s your additional harbour crossing right there. Let’s see.

  28. Matt where are the figures for the graph “AM Peak trips across Harbour Bridge” come from?
    I would like to have a look at them in more details.
    And also would be good to quote them as a source in future.

    Thanks

  29. Hope I’m not replaying someone else’s idea but here’s mine.

    A tunnell from after esmond across bayswater to Stanley st, a city by pass in effect. Stanley st has sthn and western connections and you pull all non city traffic away from it.

  30. It seems to me that Westhhaven marina should always have been “around the corner” from point Erin. If the harbour bridge came down over the existing marina then the land around it’s current exit point could be freed up for urban development. Strikes me that there is room for a lot of development there.

    I’m generally in favour of a rebuild of the AKL Harbour Bridge to suit our growing city and lessons learnt. Two bridges practically next to each other would be a bit of an eyesore wouldn’t they?

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