A couple of articles in the Herald the other day about caught my attention.

First up is this piece on the environment court proceedings in relation to the proposed residential development above the Milford mall. It seems like his is a battle that has been going on for forever and the article covers of the views of one long-time resident that appear to be fairly common in not just the Milford community but elsewhere – as we saw with the Unitary Plan. I’m going to give my views on some of the comments

The spectre of more than 500 people living in a cluster of towers rising up to 16 levels around the North Shore’s Milford Mall has dismayed an opponent.

William McCandless, a Milford resident since the 1950s, told the Environment Court on Tuesday that he was “gobsmacked” developer Milford Centre would propose 64m-high towers when the height trigger was only 11m.

“I am not comfortable with 500-plus new residents living on the same site as the shopping mall that is closed at night and in a town where there is no entertainment, sports fields, infrastructure or a police station to police them,” he said.

Bronwyn Carruthers for Milford Centre told the court the suburb was identified as a prime location for intensification, developing 250 units was appropriate and negative effects could be managed.

To me this highlights quite strongly one of the key issues with the debate about intensification and that is some see more people as just a problem, not an opportunity. Almost certainly the extra amenities that Mr McCandless quotes don’t exist due to there not being enough people in the area. The comment about the mall is especially intriguing as these residents will be living right on top of it so there is probably a much greater incentive for the mall to be open later. I do find the police station comment a bit odd though, it perhaps suggests a bias that he thinks the only people who would live in apartments are trouble makers. Moving on.

Mr McCandless said the apartment scheme contained nothing for the community and potential adverse effects were plainly obvious and would be significant.

Milford Centre is appealing against Auckland Council’s rejection of its plan.

Mr McCandless said if surrounding shore suburbs had many two- and three-level apartment buildings, he might be convinced of the need to go higher at Milford. But until then he could not see the need for such tall towers on the site.

“I definitely do not support the huge quantum leap to five, eight, 12 and 16-storey as proposed by this plan change,” he said, raising concerns about wind effects on houses nearby, the spectre of flooding and aesthetic issues.

“There will be significant adverse effects. Good Lord, it is 16, 12, eight and five-storey buildings crammed on to one allotment. You can’t screen such buildings out with 64m shrubs. Visible is visible as far as I am concerned, no matter what design it is,” he said, challenging the very concept of intensifying Milford, which he described as a flawed strategy.

“There are other ways of preventing traffic congestion and carbon pollution without giving up our business land and airspace above it,” he said, decrying residential uses for business land.

Once the area was rezoned, it was “gone for good” and so were the potential employment opportunities, he said.

The part that most intrigued me was the suggestion that if there were more low level apartments around the area that it might justify higher height limits in Milford.  This is an issue as these types of developments have largely been prevented from being able to occur either because the zoning requirements that mandate single houses or that the zoning hasn’t been sufficient enough to make developments commercially viable i.e. a developer might need three or four storeys to be able to make a profit so if he is limited to two storeys there is no point in doing the development in the first place.

Sadly this will continue as the unitary plan primarily only allows for single houses or Mixed Housing Suburban, both of which still only have two storey height limits. There is a small amount of mixed housing urban in the town centre but I think there isn’t enough to make much difference. There really should have been some THAB in the area like what was originally proposed in the draft. In effect what Mr McCandless is saying is this development shouldn’t go ahead because there aren’t lower level developments in the area but then the local community have also prevented those from happening too. Further as I think Stu pointed on of his posts (can’t find it sorry), the more we restrict more widespread but lower level intensification, the higher and more concentrated any developments will have to be in areas that do allow intensification.

I think his comments also hint at another major issue that I have had in general with some of the arguments surrounding the Unitary Plan. I remember hearing both local board members and councillors talking about progressing upgrading to the city. By that I mean suggesting that they can zone an area for the two storeys Mixed Housing Suburban zone then upgrade it to the three storey Mixed Housing Urban later when needed. Same again in going up to the Terraced Housing and Apartment zone. The issue is that in market desirable areas the best development sites may still have some viability and so the developer will maximise what he can on a site. Once that happens the site (often split up) becomes unavailable for upgrading to a higher density as no developer is going to be able to afford to buy all of the properties and undo what has happened. As such it’s important that we get the zoning right based on how we want the city to look and feel in the future than getting a half arsed and compromised solution.

There are more images from their website however here is one of what one of the towers may look like.

The second article that caught my attention was this one which talks about the future of the city and how it may look with Ludo Campbell-Reid. The first part talks a lot about how the city may feel in the future

The Auckland City of the future is no Blade Runner fantasy, says Auckland Council’s urban design guru Ludo Campbell-Reid. It’s not all gleaming glass towers and sky-high elevators; technology and vertical living.

“That’s an unimaginable city, it’s an horrific city where people are part of the machinery,” he says. “I like a bit of chaos. Chaos is more exciting. People like intimate spaces. People like to walk. People want to see the church at the end of the road they are walking along. They want to see the city around them. They want the city to be about them. That Blade Runner type of modern city scares me.”

What is planned for Auckland over the next two to three decades is more Back to the Future than Brave New World, he says. A place where pedestrians and public transport rule. Where alleys and open spaces take precedence over cars. An inter-linking set of walkways lined with shops and restaurants, joining old and new city parks, creating people spaces above our motorway junctions and evolving a Kiwi urban lifestyle where residents can see the beautiful buildings and distinctive surroundings that give Auckland its character.

Difficult to imagine? The beginnings of this Auckland City of the future is around us now. Take the shared pedestrian/car spaces of Fort Lane and Elliott St. The family-centred parks and promenades of Wynyard Quarter, the rebuilt Auckland Art Gallery, Britomart and Te Wero bridge with its steps enticing children to dangle their toes into the Waitemata Harbour. Auckland City has been undergoing a transformation over the past seven years. Expect to see more of the same over the coming decades.

That sounds great but the reason why I’ve associated with the first article is the end of be next bit:

There are plans to transform the inner-city roads already housing whole communities into narrower traffic lanes with green spaces for children, such as Hobson St which is already home to 10,000 people. He would like to see a new downtown school, Quay St to become a tree-lined boulevard on the waterfront, with room for some cars and light rail heading up Queen St.

He points to the Vinegar Lane project, currently underway in Ponsonby, as a game-changer for urban living. Built with a supermarket below, surrounded by individually-designed terraced homes and apartments with rooftop gardens, courtyards and offices, it is a village of its own all in the same block.

“In many cities now the space above the ‘big box’ stores and supermarkets are filled with apartments. Those big retail stores need people in them, and we need space.”

In a way, malls are a kind of big box type development and building above them has a lot of potential which is exactly what is proposed to happen at Milford. While most of us probably aren’t huge fans of big box type developments they may end up being hugely important from a land-banking situation. Particularly if we can deal with the minimum parking requirements.

The comments about some of the changes in the CBD are very interesting too. Narrowing Hobson and Nelson St has been on our list for a while a downtown school will likely be needed with the increasing number of people choosing to live in the CBD. Catering for children in the city centre is probably going to be one of the most important and essential things we can do to make the area liveable for everybody.

As for Quay St, it has been talked about for a while now so surely it’s time for Auckland Transport to get some sort of design out to the community so they can see what’s planned. The comment suggests there will still be cars on the street and I don’t have too much problem with this providing AT reduce the number of lanes from what we currently have as we don’t need 6 -7 lanes (when you include medians and parking). Fewer lanes along with upgrades to make it easier for pedestrians to get around will make a huge world of difference to how people use and perceive the street.

As for both articles, let’s just get on with it.

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105 comments

  1. Love the comment of there being nobody to police the apartment. These are probably going to be million dollar plus apartments – are they worried about heaps of white collar crime?

  2. There are some inaccuracies re zoning and height in Milford. Much of the land surrounding the mall is zoned for Mixed Housing Urban. This allows for 10m or 3 story buildings. Once past that zone, it changes to MH Suburban with the 8m or 2 story limit. I do think the 24.5 height (UP) is a bit low but 64m is too high in this location.

    1. The general zoning is way too low in this area. One thing to point out is that there is only one building that is 64, high and that is in the middle of the mall

      1. In your opinion. In my opinion, the MHU zone (3 story) covers pretty much half of what I call Milford, and is quite suitable for beachside development. I would have preferred the whole area as MHU with a bit more THAB closer in to the mall. Not everywhere has to resemble Mt Maunganui or the Gold Coast.

        1. The THAB should have spread along Shakespeare and East Coast Roads rather than out around the mall and towards the water, would be better for access and far less intrusive.

  3. I’m all for a bunch more tall apartment buildings around Auckland, but Milford is a terrible place to put one. It’s wedged in between an Estuary, a lake and a beach. Milford’s geography makes it a perfect place for a low-density suburb. Really, the mall should never have been built there in the first place. There are not and will never be significant arterial roads in or out of the place, and there is no propensity for rail or other alternatives. It would be great as a 30km/hour cycle friendly area.
    A few kilometres down Shakespeare Road, however – next to Smale’s Farm – that’s a good spot for a mall and plenty of apartments. Walking distance to the bus station.

    1. A mall is a perfect place to put a residential tower where ever it is. In other words, if the site is right for a mall then it’s right for a little tower like this one: more efficient land-use, doubling up of use of the vast parking over supply, better viability and security of the mall, etc….

      The incoherent whinging of an old fool frightened by change notwithstanding.

        1. I’m not arguing that. More that, just because something is there we do not have carte blanche powers to just over-ride all others. What is a good balance between intensification and the good of the existing community? I seem to recall the council planners believing 40m was a good compromise. Compromise is essential. The case for and against Bunnings, at Arch Hill, is a good example of this. Milford is no different.

        2. The logic that “if it’s a good place for a mall then it’s a good place for apartments” is faulty in two ways here – both the premise and the basis.
          Milford is not a good place for a mall and not everywhere that would be good for a mall is inherently good for apartments (although this is often true).
          It’s a silly spot because it’s not central, nor is it on arterial transport lines, but it is a facility which requires heavy patronage to maintain viability. Building apartments on top of it is not a fix for low patronage.
          Saying “we’ve already got the mall, therefore it’s ok to build apartments” doesn’t hold up either. Those people wont live their entire lives within their homes and the mall.
          If you want more apartments and density in Milford, then I want you to tell me how you will move the people in and out. Currently Milford is gridlocked from around 1430-1900 when school is in session. There is nowhere to put additional bus priority lines or rail lines without completely and utterly changing what Milford is. You’d need to make an excellent case for that scenario to be better when there are plenty of places on the North Shore much more suitable to higher density living.

          Patrick and Matt, take a look at the figures for roads around Milford and tell me how you would cater for the increased patronage, not just with this one building but also with the addition of (more sensible) 3-4 storey density over 30 years. It is a very difficult location to account for.
          Don’t just support high rises or higher density on principle – it’s possible we’ll end up with a bunch of very discouraging lemons and stopping the whole “density done well” thing before it ever really gets off the ground.

        3. Tim why are you trying to address a crappy transport situation by maintaining the inefficient highly dispersed land-use that caused it? Up the density and improve the alternatives to everyone always driving everywhere is the solution to the very problem you are bitching about. That’s what every other city in the world does. What kind habitation can help liberate people from the slow death of the traffic jam- habitation in walkable transit connected places. This tower is certainly the former [it’s literally in a mall FFS] and will help make the later a successful retro-fit.

          Accommodating our growing population in further driving-dependent sprawl suburbs beyond Milford will make all roads everywhere in this city, including Milford’s, much much worse and unfixable.

        4. @Tim a

          As to the traffic issues wouldn’t simply removing parking from Shakespeare road, Kitchener road and East Coast road and replacing with tidal bus lanes solve the traffic issue? (This is just looking at a map, I have never been to Milford)

        5. Seriously Tim the driving problem is systemic, I know it is appealing to think that if only those new Aucklanders were just somewhere else, especially out of sight on some distant farmland, then our area will be fine. But no this will in fact make all driving for everyone everywhere harder and worse, because it doubles down on autodependency; more cars, more driving..

          The only solution to too many cars is, surprise, surprise, fewer cars! And the only way to achieve that is to make the alternatives so attractive for enough people- not all, and not even a majority- and to add habitation that is less dependent on driving, so that those who wish to, can find advantage in getting off the road and out of your way. If you still choose to drive.

          It’s happening all over the western world, and it’s doable in Auckland, right now if only we start.

        6. Sorry Patrick, you don’t seem to be catching my point here. Higher density works for better public transport in most instances. I’m claiming it wont work for Milford, because there is only one main road in and out (Shakespeare), and that road is already clogged with traffic for hours each day. You can’t add much of anything to it – rapid mass transit or otherwise. It already has bus priority lanes and cycleways. It runs past schools, a hospital and a retirement village. There is no practical way to increase the throughput of human beings in this area. It already has buses with relatively high frequency, but the suburb is out of the way – virtually a dead end on a transport network. It is not a sensible site selection for increasing the population, because the geography of the location means that no matter how good the public transport, there will still be congestion. More people means more congestion, regardless of how you move them (in this scenario).

          Thankyou James for the only actual suggestion so far. Shakespeare already has tidal priority lanes along it, and these are good, but not perfect. The nature of the road (schools, hospital, retirement village etc) mean that there are always delays for all traffic. Kitchener through East Coast Road seems logical, but actually would end up being a duplicate spur on any transport network – you’d need more buses, drivers, stations etc for a limited amount of added performance to the network. You would be moving people parallel to the busway, only more slowly. Works for people going to Takapuna, but little else.

          Ultimately, I would love to see a tram loop running Shakespeare, Kitchener, Hurstmere, Tahoroto. A North Shore tram network radiating from Takapuna could head out to Devenport, as well. That is the sort of thing I’m imagining higher density proponents might envisage when they talk of higher populations encouraging better transport. I’m not sure they’ve crunched the numbers or checked the practicalities, however – it just doesn’t stack up.

        7. Lol Tim, Shakespeare road is not ‘clogged for large parts of the day’ the flow is heavy but moving in the morning, and almost free flow for the rest of the day. Milford is a very short bus trip from Smales and from Takapuna, the Lake actually works to its favour in terms of public transport and density because it puts everyone on one of those two routes.

          Milford is an ideal place for intensification because lots of people want to live there, and the transport effects can be minimised with relativeease.

    2. What’s the need for the arterial road you mention? A mall with apartments above it is a mall with a good proportion of its customers right above it – no vehicle trips necessary. With frequent and attractive enough buses linking to Takapuna and the Busway (already planned) with their respective onward connections, no arterial is necessary.

      1. Middle class North Shore-ites LUURVE their cars. How are they going to get to Albany mall, Takapuna, and all the big box retail, not on an icky bus with the poor people! Although many use the busway, many others would never consider it.

        1. So YaYaYa you’re suggesting North Shore rail (and a Takpuna spur)? Excellent idea.

          A rail tunnel under the harbour will be cheaper than a car one too.

      2. Yes, people who live in Milford work in Malls. Those minimum wage retail salaries are totally paying for their million dollar apartments.

        1. Ugh, you know it is the fundamental logical fallacy to not be fair in your intepretation of the arguments of others right.

          The commute is only two trips a day, Aucklanders make on average 5 car trips per day, whether it be to shops, or to movies, or to the beach, or the pub, or a cafe. Milford residents don’t need to make any of those by car, and particularly those in these apartments will be far worse off to do so.

        2. Sorry, this statistic is new to me. 5 per day average? Last I had seen, the commute to work was the most frequent, and thus accounted for by far the most travel time. Thus the commute to work is the most important one to reduce, while others can be longer – this places less stress on a transport network and takes up less time on behalf of the commuter.
          Source for your claim of 5 per day average please?

        3. But Tim, if someone lives at Smales farm and wants to go to the supermarket in the morning and the gym in the evening, and work in the city, then they do more travelling than the Milford resident who wants to do the same.

          I don’t have the resource for 5 trips per day, but I do have this. 2/3 of all travel time, and distance in non-work.

          “Work-related travel accounts for one-third of all household driving time
          and distance, most of which is commuting to and from work”

          http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/travel-planning-toolkit/docs/resource-1-facts-and-figures.pdf

        4. Smales already has a gym, childcare facilities, doctors, dentist and a convenience store. The Pack’n’save on Wairau Rd is 1.5km away (the same distance I ride to get groceries) and if there were plenty of people living at Smales, I’m certain that there would also be a good convenience store there. There are bars, cafe’s and no need to walk more than 100m or so to catch a bus every 4 minutes or so. If you worked in the CBD it would be great. Also, there’s a big Countdown at Barry’s Point Rd (and the other shopping there) and regular buses to Takapuna. If Shakespeare could be developed as a THAB zone, and the street purposed as more than an arterial dressed as a distributor road, then the links to the beach would also be nice. A quick ride anywhere. What about separated cycle lanes into Takapuna? This (Milford vs Smales) is not an all or nothing discussion (well it shouldn’t be) but as part of a bigger picture to create and link town centres and destinations together. We can develop them all in a way that will create a nicer city for all.

    3. It’s wedged in between an Estuary, a lake and a beach

      Apartment dwellers don’t deserve to enjoy estuaries, lakes, or beaches. Only detached-housing dwellers deserve these natural amenities.

      Dirty filthy apartment dwellers! Get off my lawn beach!

    4. Above the mall is a perfect place. The estuary means provides a much greater buffer for locals to the west than there would have been otherwise while the lake and the beach help to make the are hugely market attractive and that means high quality in design and fit out. Shakespeare Rd provides an excellent connection to the busway and even has T2 lanes on it. Smales Farm has some benefits too and this doesn’t mean that there should be no development there, although there is the issue of being next to the motorway.

    5. Tim A is obviously a local!! He does know what he is talking about.

      Milford Central has a very small land mass . The area was subdivided for units in the 1960s. There is one only main arterial leading to & fro the CBD, Shakespeare Rd which has already been widened for a buslane.

      The traffic jams are horrendous on the “Golden Mile” ,Kitchener Rd, as it is a collector road for the Bays traffic to Takapuna, which is now one of Auckland’s 4 main town centres . Widening that road is not an option as it is on a narrow isthmus between Lake Pupuke & the Hauraki Gulf

      1. The traffic jams on ?Kitchener Road are not horrendous. My mum drives throught there every morning on the way to work because it is the least congested route from Browns Bay to the city.

  4. Tim, you’ve just described Takapuna too you know.

    Shopping centre, retail strip, beach, large reserve (with sports fields I might add!), 2km from the busway, 2km from the largest metropolitan centre. It’s also at the intersection of four main roads with four frequent bus corridors, the fact it is a natural pinch point makes it ideal for a centre.

    Smales farm: no amenity, so shops, no community facilities, no beach, no parks. I don’t see the value in a cluster of apartments where the resident just have to head over to Milford to do anything. Apartments shouldn’t just be dormitories for people who have live the rest of their lives elsewhere.

      1. Bryce ‘mass intensification’ is a silly phrase in the Auckland context. No one is proposing it anywhere, there aren’t the people to demand it, this is not China or India.

        Gentle increase is all that anyone is suggesting. Language matters.

        1. You know what I mean Patrick. Apartment towers like the Sentinel are perfect for Takapuna and will easily concentrate enough people in a genuine town centre. It will be quite an increase from what is there today.

        1. Arch Hill is perfect for up zoning and intensifying, but that is not what is proposed there but rather edge-city style big box retail. Much better would be intensive habitation and retail.

        2. I agree 100%. I just think that unlike Takapuna, Milford is actually better suited to a lower height of development (I didn’t say density). It does have a beach side feel to it (apart from the mall but as you say, it’s there now). It’s just handy to think of the human scale in context to the location. It’s an art form, not an absolute.

        3. What is so magic about water that means you build up next to it? You may have heard of a seaside village called Manhattan….? Are you sure you don’t harbour [sorry] some silly snobbery about the ‘types’ that live in apartments, like the objector quoted above?

        4. We’re not in Manhattan. Milford, aside from the dainty marina, is not a harbour as such. It’s got nothing to do with snobbery just the feeling you get while walking to a beach. The sea has been my life. I’ve been a lifeguard since 1985. I love Auckland because of the link to the ocean.Building up close to the beach creates a spoiled beach, in my opinion. If we had preserved the first 100m or so for a boulevard (walking/biking) and low rise (4 story) then I would be ok with higher rise further back – but we didn’t. Takapuna works because of the barrier between the town centre / shops etc and the beach. Likewise Orewa, Mairangi Bay and Browns Bay. These can easily sustain higher development because there is a public space to the beach.

        5. I have to agree on that last comment Bryce, those beaches are nice because of the park land, but why could we not just have the fist 4 houses back be MHS the next 4 MHU at the highest and then increased as appropriate for other consideration. 8 houses back is a long way in Milford.

    1. There are even real employment opportunities at Smales Farm as well. Live next to work and a walk to 4 minute buses and a quick trip to Wairau, Milford or Takapuna. Hardly a lack of value in that.

      1. Surely people would prefer to live in a town centre near the beach and estuary and catch a four minute bus to work at the office park by the motorway, rather than the other way around.

        1. Not necessarily but we can’t find out. Shakespeare Rd is the issue. It is neither an arterial, by design (more a well used distributor road), nor a quality PT route. Imagine if it were a PT route with real cycle lanes linking the bus-way to the beach? A boulevard so to speak.

        2. Only on one side from memory unless it’s been changed? And a shared path for bikes. World class.

        3. Waterside is the key in fact, almost all of the new ‘highrise’ apartment blocks advertised in London claim some kind of water relationship no matter how tenuous or dreary. To the point that they are working to daylight many of the streams that were piped in the 19th and 20th centuries….

        4. Water is great but we should not be sacrificing a beach when a port will do. It’s like people say to me “why do you want to leave Te Atatu? There is a beach here.” I reply that an inner harbour beach is not the same as a beach that is on the outer harbour. You either get it or you don’t. I cannot explain it. I would say Wynyard, and the port itself, are much more ripe for the kind of development you are discussing. Kind of like we’ve done at the Viaduct but in a much better way.

        5. And you’re leading me down this path with the comments about port side development. Let me put it this way, what I don’t want to see is medium rise (above 3 story’s) right on the foreshore at Milford. Milford should be like this: 1) Mixed use including apartments to 40m over the mall and town centre. 2) THAB for the next rung out and then MHU. I think the MHS is a waste of time in this location. Does that make sense?

        6. But the mall is not ‘right on the foreshore’ and THAT is what is being discussed; you’re tilting at windmills, fighting an imaginary enemy. It’s a tower over a mall set back form the sea. Can’t for the life of see the problem.

          The McMansions on the ‘beautiful’ coast are not threaten by this… all the owners of the current detached dwellings will get is a more viable mall nearby, and hopefully a better transit service. Oh and somewhere local to downsize to with great views, high security and convenience, therefore an opportunity to unlock the vast value in those houses, if they so desire.

          Milford or St Heliers: which one is home to more nervous change-phobic people?

        7. Matt’s post discusses Milford in general as well as the mall. And I just made it clear (well I thought so) that I didn’t think there would be medium rise on the beach. ie. MHU = 3 story. At this time the UP has the beach side zoned for MHS (2 story) even though 3 story houses exist there already.

          A more viable mall is fine, and I’m not arguing against that, what I’m saying is the AC were of the opinion that 40m was a good height in relation to the area, and I tend to agree. The UP height of 24.5m is too low for over the mall but I think the 65m is too high. The rest of the shops are set for 4 story which is fine.

        8. Patrick, I see where the convo went off on a tangent. You mentioned Manhattan, and being interested, I Googled it and had a look. I then thought you were referring to have Milford appear like Manhattan. I then made an observation that if, and it’s an if, we had kept some land in front of residences (like Takapuna) we could conceivably have had higher rise (8 to 9 perhaps) in Milford up to the public space. Blah, blah, blah. I think we actually are along the same lines. 🙂

    2. There are a few important differences between Milford and Takapuna.
      Takapuna is of itself an employment area. Both the Takapuna Centre and Barrys Point Rd are actual commercial areas. The jobs are there, so people can live close to where they work. Milford is largely only retail. These are not jobs for the types who can afford to live in Milford, so people in Milford will commute outside to go to work.
      Esmonde Road is a true arterial Road, and Anzac Street is considerably wider than Shakespeare Road. This allows alot more traffic throughput, whichever type of traffic it happens to be.

      The Smales Farm area makes more sense than both to me. Specifically, I’m looking at that large golf course along side the motorway and thinking “there’s a big part of Auckland’s housing problem”.
      To the North lies Wairau Valley, one of the largest employment centres on the shore – within walking and cycling distance. East lies North Shore Hospital, Smale’s Farm and a bunch of large schools. More employment within walking distance.

      Now imagine a properly done medium density development with commercial spaces on ground levels and apartments or terraced houses above. With proper insulation (including double glazing) and orientation of units, the motorway would barely be noticeable. You could house thousands of people within walking and cycling distance of multiple serious employment opportunities, schools, the hospital and with the necessary light retail directly underneath their dwellings. To top it all off, they would be right next to one of the prime transport hubs in Auckland, connecting them to the CBD with a 10 minute walk and 10 minute bus ride.

      Remember, people commute to work 5 times a week. They head out to the supermarket maybe once a week. They head out to the beach once a month. Give the most frequent trip the biggest advantage. Living close to a beach and above a mall might sound like it will solve commuter problems, but you’re ignoring the most frequent – and often the longest – commute.

      1. That commute is only a problem if it’s in a car. Milford can be connected to the rest of the Transit network easily and cheepy through the Northern Busway, buses every five minutes travelling on buslanes only minutes from employment centres on the Shore and the CBD and thence beyond. Make it that good and it will be used.

      2. You really think people only go to the supermarket once a week, and the beachh once a month?

        That put aside, why not Smales Farm and Milford? I actually think Smales Farm is a good spot, would love to see the whole thing covered in tall buildings and a strip of 6-8 storey building developing along Tahoroto Road.

      3. Tim A
        I completely agree that this golf course should be zoned for intensive development with a density done well approach. (I made such a submission to the UP).There might be two or three towers and then differing height development. That does not include one or one and a half!
        It will be critical to link this to Smales Farm bus station and you are absolutely right that it will be on the door step of many schools, the North Shore Leisure Centre (eventually some one will be clever enough to link access to Taharoto Road) and the substantial employment already available at Smales Farm. And I suspect that this is not the low paid employment that others have spoken of.

      4. @ Tim A – you were almost getting all your ducks in a row & then you mentioned building on the Fred Thomas Gulf Course. Give me a break!!

        Have you never lived in London & enjoyed all of its wonderful parks??? Such as Peckham Rye in Sth London. Dulwich Green to name just a few.

        The Fred Thomas golf course is part of the lungs of middle North Shore. Luckily we all own it & it is a Recreational Reserve & it will never be a housing development. Its future could be a botanical garden. You will be looking at building on the Domain soon or what about Cornwall Park!! Takapuna & Milford have limited open space already .

        1. Different placeMyles, Tim is talking about the North Shore Golf Course on Northcots road, you are talking about the driving range on Fred Thomas Drive.

        2. Sorry Sailor Boy. The Fred Thomas Golf Course is on Northcote Rd. Reserve land – NOT for housing EVER

        3. Thats weird, google says it is called the Takapuna golf Course, I could have sworn that it was North Shore…

          Anyway, you are quilte right that it is reserve land.

        4. I’m not sure what the golf course is called, but he is quite right, it is reserve land. I’m pretty disgusted that reserve land is being used for a golf course, but that’s a little beside the point.
          I’m pretty torn over the idea that you would replace green space with housing in the middle of a city (well, suburbs, in this case). To answer the question, no I have never lived in London but I have visited a few times so I’m familiar with many of the parks.
          From an environmental perspective, I saw them as a sore waste of space – more grass than trees in most inner city parks, and sparse people. But I suppose that’s what most people enjoy, somewhere open and quiet to walk around.

          Regardless, there have been instances where one piece of space may be traded for another. The golf course sitting across the motorway from Smale’s Farm is just too perfect a place for housing to waste having people play golf. You could keep a strip of land along side the motorway, and plant a corridor (as exists at the end of Karaka St), then infill the rest. Proceeds from the land sale would be put towards expanding other parks in the area, or establishing a new one. Imagine if you could actually visit and take a walk around a valuable public amenity like Lake Pupuke?

          That golf course could house the entire population of Milford and then some, and it would already be right on a transport hub both for mass rapid transit and private vehicle use. It’s right next to jobs and open spaces and bundles of employment opportunities. There is hardly a more perfect site in the entire Auckland area.
          Demolish Milford Mall and plant a market garden, make the place a sleepy seaside retirement village – Pauanui of the North Shore, if you like – and you’ve got better living conditions and better transportation all round.

          There isn’t much difference in opposition to development on your local golf course and opposition to a high rise in your local village centre, as far as I can tell.

    3. Furthermore, Smales Farm is pretty much as close to those Takapuna sports fields as any likely spot for apartments in Takapuna. It’s also right next to Onewa Domain (ok, the walk across the motorway might be unpleasant) which is opposite a pub and restaurant (last time I was there, anyway), and Smales Farm itself features a number of eateries (some quite nice places, actually). The amenity is all right there already, plus the jobs and the open space, with the added bonus of better connectivity to the transport network. The only thing you mentioned that it doesn’t have is the beach. That, of course, is only a 10 minute bike ride away.

  5. Most of the people opposed will have passed on by the time anything much might start. If and when it does, they could just sell up, make a capital gain, and move along to Castor Bay or somewhere, or into an upmarket retirement village.

  6. “move along to Castor Bay or somewhere, or into an upmarket retirement village”

    Hang on a minute. For commercial reasons most new retirement villages are multi storey so they won’t want to move there. And how does that work? Why would developers build these developments for people who don’t like them?

    My guess is that the Milford Mall owner has realised that when the somewhat tired Takapuna Mall is re-developed his mall will die. It won’t be the first mall that this has happened to on the Shore. For him it is sensible to have at least 500 captive customers on the site.

    And yes Milford is a perfect spot for greater development and the Smales Farm bus station is the reason for that, because it will be accessible every 10 minutes – and there will be two other bus routes out of the town centre.

    And why not build high rise apartments at Smales Farm and near Akoranga Station as well? The office towers at Smales have already caused a number of retail/service amenities to be built there.

    1. I think you’re spot on about the mall. When it was sold and refurbished a few years ago many of the useful shops were replaced by fashion stores with the attempt to take it up market, but these seem to be virtually empty while everybody flocks to The Warehouse, Countdown and Whitcoulls. I think it’s highly likely that the mall will be sold off if the redevelopment isn’t approved (which I suspect is unlikely) and who knows if it will even stay open?
      On another brighter note, I was sitting in front of an old lady at the Town Hall the other day, she had obviously just moved into The Poynton and was telling her friend how wonderful it was to be able to catch a bus from just outside to the city – so not all Milford residents fit the stereotype.

  7. I don’t think people from Milford actually look out their window. This is the character of Milford – http://goo.gl/maps/aSpxD. A 3 to 4 story high car parking building.
    Will be a fascinating case though, the 2 tall towers being proposed are well above the height limits for the area. However they may still be able to get consent if they show the effects are minor.
    I really hope we see more of these mall towers popping up, notably at neighbouring Takapuna and New Lynn. Hopefully the success of the Infratil Tower will encourage the mall to follow suit.

  8. This will meet stiff resistance as its a very affluent area either in the North Shore or East Coast Bays electorates (see where this is going if all Mangere is good for is motorways motorways and more motorways) and because of money and political connections the not in my back yard campaign will almost certainly win. Great spot though for a few Nelson Mandela House projects and yellow three wheeled vans!

    But as with any of these high density ideas anywhere in Auckland the bit where we get people to and from these buildings never is contemplated, its simply make do with the overcrowded roads and lack of decent PT. And in this area its buses only.

  9. I can’t get my head around this one that people oppose intensification and then they go and move into a retirement village. Hello?!

    Milford’s not some sleepy bay, it’s a prime residential area. It’d be like not allowing development in Greenlane. You wanta live somewhere that won’t be developed move to Campbell’s bay (or maybe St Helier’s!).

    I suspect a lot of the fear over intensification is about losing property value. It’s a shame we have so much of our wealth in property. Down-sized, closer to services, with a balanced portfolio of assets is my option. Just stay away from investing in those finance companies!

  10. I’m not sure that the Infratil Tower in New Lynn should really be cited as a good example of intensification. To the contrary, it’s a rather prominent multi-storey car park garnished with a block of not particularly well-designed, somewhat boxy apartments, surrounded by more car parking facilities and the target market would appear to be overseas investors. Detail design is poor and the whole development really hasn’t been thought through, particularly the way it interacts with the transport interchange. Early days, of course, but if you actually walk around the site it’s all rather depressing. Notwithstanding plentiful parking, the shared spaces are filled with parked vehicles and half the trees that were planted on Macrae Way are dead. Mind you, it could probably be made into something by implementing simple corrective measures such as ripping out the street level parking and planting an urban forest; making the surrounding streets – such as the dreadful Clark Street – more pedestrian/cycling friendly; and leasing the commercial spaces to retailers other than convenience shops, a $2.00 store, a sad, featureless, café, a chemist (there are now four of them within a 100m radius) and a ‘Mexican’ franchise restaurant.

    1. Yes I agree, and the reason New Lynn is in fact a brave attempt but actually a disappointment is because it tries to intensify without letting go of the old auto-dependent model. This makes it too expensive [for us- all those roads- all that parking!] and a half-arsed fail. We have to change the thinking all the way if we are to intensify successfully.

      We have to make new islands of carless development where appropriate, like here; on a mall, on a transit station, surrounded by oceans of extant parking. If we don’t do it there, it will only exist in the CBD proper.

      I hope New Lynn can improve from here but it’s hard to see how unless it gets six more towers all without this kind of parking stump beneath it, and some kind of reason to go there…?

      1. “New Lynn is in fact a brave attempt … and a half-arsed fail”

        As isn’t the one proposed here at Milford in the same boat too?

        Is that not several levels of car-parking in the buildings I see in the picture above? So its as attached (if not more so) to the auto-dependant model as New Lynn is.
        New Lynn has something useful though – its near the New Lynn Transport centre.

        And so this plan therefore basically nothing more than a cookie-cutter rendition of New Lynn without much fedeeming features.

        And while we’re on the topic of New Lynn – I note some regulars on this very blog, have lauded New Lynn in the not so recent past as a good example of “density done well”.

        “The Emperors New Clothes” story springs to mind when discussing both this proposal and New Lynn…

        1. We all have our own views. I don’t entirely disagree about Milford except to say that on balance I see this as a positive addition to a local metro centre and simply cannot follow the logic that because it is near the sea it is somehow wrong. Daft. Parking can and will be repurposed over time.

        2. Patrick,
          I don’t oppose Milford development per-se, and as you say it is a potentially good location.
          But malls are by definition: inward looking, they are castle-like, and invariably surrounded by a moat of car parks.

          And in this case, the location (and the residents too it seems) really demand an outward looking development which is inclusive of the area.

          Malls are an invention for countries that have cold winters and snow for much of the year so it makes sense to have a fully enclosed space.

          For a location like NZ, I don’t see US style malls as the retail answer to a “weather problem” we don’t have.

          We need better solutions here and elsewhere – not the same tired old auto-dependant solutions that have caused many of todays issues.

          We need density done well – not more density done very badly – we have enough examples of that type already thanks.

          And if what Macca pointed out below is true, the developer of this proposal already has the right to put a 15 4-5 storey townhouse development on that mall car-parking area (a proposal more in keeping with the existing and proposed changes in the UP for the area) and has had it since 2009 but hasn’t done anything.
          So what is it that the developer really wants – given he has an existing right to re-develop the land now?

          “Parking can and will be re-purposed over time”.

          At ground level, yes, that does happen (on private land), but re-purposing a parking **building**?

          When was the last time anyone actually managed to convert an old parking building to anything more useful longer term?
          No most of the time they simply “re-purpose” the car-parking building by demolishing it.

          And both this and New Lynn will have parking buildings that the apartments are built on top of, so that option to “re-purpose by wrecking ball” is not there.

          And as for re-purposing on street parking – when was the last time AT permanently removed any on-street parking anywhere significant?
          It hasn’t even added any new bus lanes since it came into being in 2010.

        3. Greg I don’t like the mall either, but it’s there. The addition of apartments on top of the existing mall will help make it a less bad thing, that’s all.

          Yes very little repurposing of car parking in AK yet, except on city streets. But it is common elsewhere in cities further along the way to the post car era…. it’ll happen here too. First in small ways like apartment owners converting their spaces to storage, then from the top down for stand alone ones. In Vancouver there’s that example of urban gardeners using the very top [always the first to become unused] to grow produce for local restaurant.

          http://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+rooftop+greenhouse+grower+secures+high+market+greens+with+video/7572632/story.html

        4. “The addition of apartments on top of the existing mall will help make it a less bad thing, that’s all.”

          Possibly, but you damn this one with faint praise.

          And does it have to be allowed to be 64m tall – way in excess of the existing rules – for what is a pretty ordinary design?
          I would have thought Milford and Auckland deserves way better than this.

          Turning unneeded car-park areas as you suggest into storage is doable, its not new, and it is an expensive way per m2 to re-purpose car-parks and is only possible for fully enclosed (underground) carparks.

          Car park buildings (like the ones at New Lynn and proposed here at Milford) are open the outside air – they need to be to get rid of those nasty car exhaust fumes, so thats not practical to do for above ground buildings.

          Reusing such car park spaces for human habitation (the logical alternative) is not allowed by AC, for all sorts of reasons not least the lack of proper ventilation, windows, fire-safety and sound proofing.

          The jury appears to be still out that idea Patrick of growing crops on the roof – some 12 months on from your story.
          The company that runs that scheme has a languishing share price, And so the sharemarket doesn’t actually believe in it yet either.

          Its probably a good idea, but one whose time has yet to arrive.

          It might make sense to do this if you have to import your food from California, 1500 miles away, but would it make economic sense here?
          I’d say maybe, but only if it displaced like for like high-value produce that is coming expensively from overseas via airfreight.

        5. I am not in the slightest bit concerned with how we will repurpose land and buildings currently used for parking as when we find that that use is no longer needed or insufficiently valuable or efficient as i am confident we will find both obvious and more creative ways to do this; including replacement with new buildings. And nor do I consider any of that speculation relevant to the merits or otherwise of this project.

          You forget one important point; here is a real live project by a developer prepared to gamble serious money on an actual intensification project and all you want to do is describe ways in which it is not the most perfect project ever devised. This building needs to be judged in its real world context: it is either this and these sorts of additions to our city, or hectare upon hectare of impoverishing, environment consuming sprawl on freshly ruined productive farmland fed disastrously by kilometre upon kilometre of bankrupting and place ruining shinny new motorways… including ever more drivers on all city and existing suburban streets.

          We are constantly told that no one wants to live in apartments in Auckland, it seems more like there are plenty of people who don’t want others to be able to ever have that choice. Milford, Takapuna, Grey Lynn, where ever, bring ’em on, if there’s a market for them…. and it just looks like there might be after all.

        6. The Milford mall, as it stands, is a dive. Adding apartments won’t change it. I do wonder if the mall couldn’t be rebuilt by opening up above the mall ‘lanes’ and building the apartments above the countdown, Warehouse, and parking. Kind of like re-creating laneways like in Melbourne. Connect the lanes to the surrounding streets and make the whole place part of the town centre again.

        7. Patrick:
          “You forget one important point; here is a real live project by a developer prepared to gamble serious money on an actual intensification project”

          I see this effort by a developer who is gambling some money not on building something, but only on wearing down the AC enough to get his plan through with minimal changes.
          Who will then on-sell these rights as fast as he can to someone else,at the highest price he can get, and that new developer will then do as cut-rate an alternative design they can get away with – having got the rights to build to 64m they will now have carte-blanche to maximise everything in the place, to maximise their profits.

          You may disagree – but time will tell who is right.

          “This building needs to be judged in its real world context: it is either this and these sorts of additions to our city, or hectare upon hectare of impoverishing, environment consuming sprawl on freshly ruined productive farmland fed disastrously by kilometre upon kilometre of bankrupting and place ruining shinny new motorways… including ever more drivers on all city and existing suburban streets.”

          Problem is Patrick, no matter what you or I wish otherwise, currently these sorts of projects do not actually contribute to the positive growth of “intensified Auckland”
          – they don’t cause any less amount of kms of motorways, sprawl and whatever else you call it to be built.

          People look at projects like this (and New Lynn), and how the developers have the upper hand, regardless of the council planners rules and say, well if thats how the rules work, I’ll take my motorway, McMansion, and hour long commute on a good day and live out west/south/north thanks.

          its not me you need to convince of the merits of this or similar buildings, Its all those developers and people who propose and buy those sprawly developments, who can’t think beyond the current options and who persist with more of the same.

          Its also time that these so-called city leaders and planners actually put their necks on the line and made some decisions about developments like: “this is good, this is not”.
          Instead of this “well the design rules suggest you might want to do this, but if you don’t want to, we won’t stop you…”

          The UP Design manual is full of wishy washy language about good design, but its not statutory, so it can be ignored.
          And until such time as the Environment and planning courts actually kick a developers proposed designs out when they don’t meet the UP Design guide, then the Design manual is not worth the paper its written on.

          Isn’t that what Toderian said city leaders and planners had to do to make a liveable city happen – make some judgement calls on the good and bad stuff so you get more of the former and less of the latter? Isn’t that what Campbell-Reid’s job is supposed to be?

          Isn’t that how a truly liveable Auckland will develop – and not because of smart developers and their lawyers who can twist the rules any which way they like?

  11. It’s so frustrating people in their 80s stopping progress and dragging us down with their 1959s views!

    1. Hopefully some change coming. Last year we (family of four with school age children) brought a house in Milford after the 80+ year old previous owner moved out to a hospice. Suspect we are not the only ones.

      The house we brought was not exactly what we were looking for – we wanted somewhere ‘urban’ – i.e compact/low maintenance with good access to PT links and cafes/restaurants as well as decent schools, but ended up with a house on ~1100 sq metres of land. Kids can walk to school, but the Milford Nimbies seem to want to block all change anywhere in the area.

      I personally welcome some more life being injected into the area, though I wish there could have been a little compromise on both sides; maybe the the ’64-metre’ tower could still be profitable at a lower height, but the sense I get (and the previous resident of my house gets mail from the local residents association on the topic), is that the Milford residents simply want no change at all and the tower height is not really the issue; even 11 metres would probably be challenged.

  12. @ Luke C The Western block of Takapuna was zoned “sky’s the limit” for office accommodation in 1989 – where are they now??
    Smales Farm/ Albany due to lack of carparking. All high rises since built are residential – many empty with absentee owners. Takas apartments will house many more in future but rents too high for supermarkets – one nearby in Hauraki closing due to greedy landlord

  13. It doesn’t matter what the commute is made in. Time saved is time saved. It makes sense to live closer to where you work (provided you commute frequently) and further from things you do less often, no matter what method of transport you take.

    1. Exactly Tim, it makes sense to live in Milford rather than a sprawl development in Long Bay, now you are getting it!!!!

      On a more serious note. Milford is 14km from Britomart, 1.6 from Smales, 2 from Wairau, and 1.7 from Taka, arguing that proximity is better is an argument FOR intensification at Milford.

      1. That reply was intended for your comment “That commute is only a problem if it’s in a car. Milford can be connected to the rest of the Transit network easily and cheepy through the Northern Busway, buses every five minutes travelling on buslanes only minutes from employment centres on the Shore and the CBD and thence beyond. Make it that good and it will be used.”

        My original comment was a general observation on transport, as I was suggesting an alternative location for intensification.

        It actually doesn’t matter what the mode for commuting is. If you commute less, it puts less pressure on the transport network. I know you understand this but;
        We could all live next to Wellington airport and fly to Auckland every day for work. Let’s imagine we work at Auckland airport, so that’s the final destination.
        Have we added to automobile congestion? Not at all. Do we have a cost effective solution to our living and working arrangements? Hardly.
        The mode matters, but the distance covered also matters. We need to shift the mode share to something more efficient than driving cars everywhere, but we can also be smart about where we locate the people relative to where they travel most frequently. This can have as much if not greater effect on resolving transport issues.

        So yes, Sailor Boy, it’s a better option than a greenfield development at Long Bay. But when you consider the layout of a transport network which would need a spur out to Milford, is it a better option than Takapuna or Smales farm (or numerous other locations, like Albany, Sunnynook, the rest of Auckland)?
        If we could have a preference for where we put the people; which locations are better than others, and how should that translate to varying densities?
        I’m sure you’ve all done this thinking with regards to the UP. When I thought about it, Milford was a poor choice.
        Running 5 minute bus frequencies out there seems great, but where do the buses come from and go to next?
        Just how many more people do you think will live in Milford to justify what level of infrastructure? Will this be more or less realistic and feasible than other locations?
        What proportion of new inhabitants will actually end up not owning cars, and how many current residents will change their habits?

        It’s not as simple as saying “if there’s a mall there, then it’s a good place for many people to live”. We know it’s more complex than this, yet this is the primary argument I seem to be hearing.

        1. Tim, the new public transport network has a Frequent Service bus ‘spur’ along Shakespeare Rd already. The blue line shown here: http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/improving-transport/plans-proposals/IntegratedTravel/Documents/rptp/frequent-service.pdf

          So to answer your question, the buses go from Milford to Smales to Takapuna to Belmont to Devonport.

          If that isn’t enough, then a single bus and driver could add four more trips an hour on the section from Milford to Smales (the beauty of a short, direct and fast route, the 4km return trip can be done in less that fifteen minutes), although personally I would make it two more buses and run a Milford – Smales – Glenfield – Smales – Milford shuttle instead. That would connect Milford and Glenfield (and all points between) to the busway very readily, and connect them to each other.

          There is already a bus lane in one direction, and adding it in the other direction would cost practically nothing if and when it were required. Likewise with an improved cycle connection. That’s more than can be said for bus lanes to and from Takapuna actually.

        2. I agree. Shakepeare is a 20m wide corridor. We could do plenty with that if we wanted. Smales – Glenfield? Along Wairau Rd or up Northcote Rd?

        3. Milford-Glenfield is a good idea. I was thinking along the lines of a Milford-Smales-Hospital-Akoranga-Takapuna loop, but it didn’t seem entirely worthwhile (the hospital is actually a pain in the arse, and perhaps deserves a dedicated Smales-Hospital-Takapuna shuttle, and no other buses, as it slows the routes too much). You could have a larger loop running Milford-Glenfield-Taka-Milford, along both Wairau and Northcote roads, bringing residents from both sides to Smales Farm station. Other potential options could take you as far as Beach Haven and back along Onewa Road…
          Unfortunately anything out to Glenfield ends up a meandering trip through the suburbs, but it does work as a nice complement to a hub-and-spoke type of transport arrangement, providing amenable feeder buses and a cross-suburban route.

  14. I grew up in Milford; 18 years ago, my nana lived there and used to pick me up from the kindergarten there and walk me home. It’s a lovely place, which is perfectly walkable, and could easily be turned into a great place to cycle around as well. My nana used to take me on the bus to Takapuna; she never learnt to drive because she didn’t have to.

    Now, I’d love to be able to live that type of lifestyle when I’m a bit older. Kitchener and Shakespeare are totally wide enough for two vehicle lanes plus two transit lanes. They don’t need parking; I’d be surprised if there’s a single house on them without off street parking. So to say that there’s not good enough transport is rubbish. There could easily be amazing transport. And more people living above the mall would be just the way to achieve better transport. I totally support an intensified town centre here, and maybe that’s for purely selfish reasons since I’d like to move back, but hey.

    Oh but wait, we can’t grow 64 metre high shrubs to screen the towers. Well dang, forget it then.

    1. Interesting that people want to do away with parking mins and on street parking…where exactly are all the cars going to go or do you think only people using PT and cycles buy apartments?

      1. That is the glorious thing about the free market Phil, that if you allow people to build as few car parks as they need/want then those who don’t want carparks don’t have to have them, and those that do still can! Isn’t it glorious when people are allowed to choose things that work for them!

  15. Macca..

    good to see my stand in the Environment Court has created all this debate, just wish you had read my Court submission instead of going off what some reporter put in a newspaper without even interviewing me….the Mall doesnt need 500 people to keep it going, Milford has thousands of residents to shop there….the pretty building in the pic above is in a designated flood prone area, just the right place for proposing residential methinks, yeah right, and the design is just a hypothethical design that can change come the resource consent stage.

    However the developer is asking the Court to change the activity status from Non Complying to Limited Discretionary, so the milford community wont be able to have a say come resource consent stage, even thought this proposal will alter the complete matrix of Milford Village as we know it today….forgive me, but I am not willing to leave future matters up a developer and the Council alone..I want a say in how my town looks and operates in the future..

    I am opposed to giving up vital business zoned land for residential..we wont have a town, or a business zone if we fill it up with residential…Indeed, the powers that be threw good homeowners off that land in 1991, then rezoned it from residential to Commerical just for the original Mall. They pulled the houses down or transported them away. alongwith the Milford Marina hotel, movie theatre, and a ton of other business’s..we lost homes, jobs, business’s and good people were moved off that land just for the original Mall..20yrs later their land is nothing more than an open mall carpark……. they ripped the guts out of Milford all for a Mall, now the business fella’s want residential back when it suits them..

    in the pass business and residential were always kept apart…if you read my submission, you see I am not against intensification, but there is reasonable and unreasonable.

    The Mall owner is not prevented from undertaking intensive residential development on his land..he got approval for 15 townhouses on the site in 2009, but hasnt so much as put a peg in the ground……he can apply for four / five storey under the current Plan, and I cannot stop him, but no, he wants to go higher ,so he can on sell his site…this is a property investment group only interested in changing the rules so he can make money for his shareholders, over and above the interests of the community, so forgive me fella’s if I at least have my say in Court for what I believe in…..I have lived there for nearly 60yrs, I have seen what cross leasing has done to the Wairau stream and Milford Beach, I have seen what intensification does.

    the Plan Change also proposes new provisions that will effect every town centre on the North Shore, without the residents of those Town Centres being made aware.. I am standing up for that as well…. I am afraid you really have to read the 1000 pages of evidence to understand what this case is about, and not just some News clip out of the Herald from a reporter who worded my submission to suit her purposes, and now it has found its way to this site….the reference to police stations, is in regards to the term ‘ town centre ‘..all the Town Centres on the North Shore named in the ARGS had police stations, Milford does not, nor Belmont, Hauraki Corner and others now named as Town Centres..it seems because you have a supermarked, you are a town centre, when it use to be a police station and the number of residents
    .
    I am afraid the benefits do not outweight the burden in this case..but I am just a lone voice up against lawyers, and consultants, and a property investment group who go from town to town, changing the district plan rules, just to suit themselves, but I have earned the right to say my say after nearly 60yrs as a local….

    1. Surely we aren’t giving up any business zoned lane, as will still be ground floor business, and residential above that?
      Business and residential begin kept apart has been a major failure of planning in the last 50 years. Having people living in a town centre ensures their is more activity 7 days a week, and after 5pm as well. Things makes things better for business as well as being safer.
      I suspect the reason why the townhouses haven’t been built is their construction would be somewhat interdependent on the outcome of this case.
      I also struggle to see what issue there is with flood prone land for a residential tower.
      However I would support strong provision to ensure quality urban design, especially where this front houses on Milford Road.

  16. ”I can’t get my head around this one that people oppose intensification and then they go and move into a retirement village. Hello?!”

    Couldn’t agree more with Jeff T’s comment.

    The argument is always ”no no no” to intensification, not near my beach, or golf course, or park, and then they’re off to a retirement apartment complex!
    So the oldies have the housing market locked up AND get to move into the apartments when they can’t cope with the maintenance anymore, or the house is too big for their needs, or all their mates have gone to the big heavenly apartment complex in the sky.

    What a stitch up!

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