You really have to wonder why this made the news
A pregnant Auckland mother watched in horror as a train’s doors closed, cutting her off from her three young sons and leaving her stranded on the platform as it left a South Auckland station.Five months pregnant, Jamie-Lee Johnson ran more than 2km down the tracks after the train.
The Takanini family were catching a 7.32am train on Wednesday, heading one stop down the line to Te Mahia where Justin, 10, Lorenzo, 9, and Jade, 7, attend a Manurewa school.
“I was getting on the train with my kids and my kids managed to get on and I didn’t. As the doors closed I was yelling out to the conductor to reopen the doors…” Ms Johnson said.
“I was just freaking out, I didn’t know what to do because all I could see was my son standing there from inside the train crying.
“I wanted to jump onto the train and not let go.
“So I started chasing after the train and I ran all the way from Takanini to Te Mahia train station, partly on the train lines but then I realised it wasn’t so safe so I switched to the main road.”
A passenger on the train saw the incident unfold and waited with the crying children at Te Mahia until Ms Johnson arrived, she said.
At first it sounds really bad and isn’t a good look for our public transport system but as usual, it is only half of the story.
Veolia spokeswoman Michelle Roach said CCTV footage showed two of the children running down the platform to get on the train as its bells were ringing, signalling the doors were closing.
Ms Johnson was then seen pushing her third child through a “tiny gap” in the doors, she said.
The conductor did not see the woman, Ms Roach said.
“The issue is, with a big train, with the train manager at the other end of the train … without waving her hands or making any broad expressions, [Ms Johnson] has not communicated very clearly that she wanted to get on the train as well, or that there was an issue. It’s a very tricky situation.”
Ms Johnson said she did not accept that version of the incident.
I’m glad that Transdev were able to pull up CCTV footage to give their side of the story. Throwing your kids through closing doors isn’t a smart move at any time and all it would take is to slip slightly and the outcome could have ended extremely seriously. Also of note that there isn’t a train due to be at Takanini at 7:32 with the timetable suggesting them coming through the station towards Te Mahia at 7:28 and 7:35. Perhaps the first train was running slightly late which should mean that the following train was only a few minutes behind. The incident also raises other questions, for example did she and her kids tag on/buy a ticket or were they just intending to travel for free? I’m guessing the latter.
While we can look at this issue in isolation, the real question is what can be done to ensure this kind of behaviour doesn’t lead to an incident which could potentially impact on thousands of travellers. First and foremost is of course the need for people to take personal responsibility but is there anything else you think should be done. Of course that needs to be within reason, for example there is likely to be little point in spending hundreds of millions in technology or staffing costs just to prevent something that might happen extremely infrequently.
Oh and seriously Auckland Transport, when is Takanini going to get an upgrade. I must be one of the last stations left to do and I thought the plan was to have them all upgraded before electrification was finished.
Processing...
I agree wholeheartedly. Corporations can often be a bit cold with their responses, but thankfully there is CCTV evidence to back it up. One would think a good mother would tell their kids to wait until she caught up before hopping on the train
Your much kinder in the response to this situation than I was yesterday when I wrote up on this.
As for Takanini, I have my own opinions for that particular station as well
“did she and her kids tag on/buy a ticket or were they just intending to travel for free? I’m guessing the latter”. I don’t understand this – why do you guess that? Nothing in that story seemed to indicate her and her kids didn’t all tag on their HOP cards before they got on. Who knows – perhaps they had problems with the machines and that was why they were rushing?
You are right. That sort of prejudice is totally pointless and doesn’t help the author’s argument at all.
I agree, I was a bit puzzled with this assumption.
Seriously, why even bother having a conductor who gets out on the platform and looks around if he’s not able to notice problems with people at the doors? They should just have the driver operate the doors, with sensitive door edges that prevent the train moving off if anything gets stuck. Like in a decent metro system.
Are train doors here like elevator doors? Surely the train doesn’t move if the doors are open, and the doors have sensors to stop them from jamming someone’s arm in the door.
I’ve never caught an Auckland Train, but I’m pretty sure that’s how they worked in Rio de Janeiro.
I know circa 2006/7 they certainly didn’t as I recall during last service Western Line one night, a blind man getting his cane stuck in the door (2 unit, ADK or similar) as he was trying to get on. Thankfully we didn’t need to engage the emergency overrides as we created enough ruckus that the driver realized something was wrong. At the time I even wrote in a complaint, and got a very wish-washy response. The event was certainly a good indicator of how unsafe some of the old platforms were at night.
As I recall though Brisbane had the sensors when I was over there in 09.
No-one was caught in the door in this instance, though – the problem was the kids got on, and then their mother didn’t have time to get on.
Takanini was resealed and received new signage and bus shelters, but I was also under the impression that it may be replaced by a station near Walters Road – even if that’s not funded yet, it makes sense to hold off on an upgrade until it’s confirmed or rejected.
I think the Glenora station would be an aditional station, not a replacement. Takanini has a good catchment in all direction. It is theoretically walkable from Conifer Grove, although the lack of pedestrian crossings at Maru Road, and the Great South/Walter Stevens intersection missing 2 pedestrian crossings making it impossible to safely reach Takanini sure don’t help.
A safe path from Manuroa Road would sure help too.
Apparently the upgrade is postponed to 2015. Unbelievable.
At least with the new trains this is unlikely to happen with controls on the door to reopen it.
Apparently the doors will automatically reopen: https://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/improving-transport/auckland-rail-upgrade/electric-trains/Pages/electric-train-design-and-features.aspx
While yes the EMU will have this feature, Auckland’s current trains have this feature anyway.
Can the driver control the doors at the moment?
This isn’t true, the doors don’t re-open, they keep trying to push closed until the TM does an “All Open”, I would know, I was stuck between them once thanks to the TM opening and closing them at near instant speed thinking nobody was at the station. At least this is the case for the SA cars or perhaps it was just a fault with that particular car’s doors.
While I can understand where you’re coming from, I don’t think making assumptions as to whether or not the passengers in question had or hadn’t tagged on helps clarify the real issue. Because Aucklanders in general are so unfamiliar with travelling in trains it’s amazing there aren’t more incidents like this. Just look at how people board/egress carriages: the standard routine (as users of the Tube will recall robotic intonations instructing them to do so) is to ‘Stand clear of the doors; let the passengers off the train first’. This courtesy, like standing to the left (or right in the Tube) on station escalators is widely ignored here, presumably because it’s never been enforced. As for safety issues, I’d contend there’s a problem with under-design not only of the current rolling stock but also the stations. The number of times I’ve seen passengers cross rail lines from side platform to side platform at Avondale station is appalling (no over bridge, no inter-track fence and a circuitous 80m walk). Hopefully these issues will be addressed by the new EMUs and by AT/KiwiRail recognising that they have not only to begin educating users of the network in train etiquette but also to start realising the consequences of running a passenger-focussed service rather than a freight network with a couple of commuter trains.
I think a lot of people don’t actually realise what a train is. It is a scheduled service processing 1000s of people an hour, you and your 3 kids running down the platform and then requiring the train to wait 20 seconds so you can board saves you all a total of about 20 minutes, there only need to be 60 people on the train before you are wasting more time than you are gaining.
The exact same thing happens with the NEX, the bus is loading for around 5 minutes at Britomart, it comes at least every 10 minutes, yet every time I am on it someone gets indignant that the bus isn’t waiting for them.
It’s reasonable to expect a train to wait a few seconds if the next one isn’t for an hour, like a plane would. But we’re starting to move to a metro model for the trains and buses, where they run often enough that it’s fair to say, no, you can wait for the next one.
It might take a while before people come to realise that things are changing, though, and more importantly, before people start trusting that there will actually be another train (or bus) in a few minutes.
But it is also reasonable to expect that anyone wishing to catch a train would arrive at the station several minutes before the train is due. Although, this will become unnecessary once frequencies are increased.
Maybe, but people aren’t perfect, they have kids to deal with, ticket machines and HOP cards to fight, traffic lights that wait forever to let them across and so on. The trains themselves aren’t exactly punctual either.
It’s about making the right tradeoff. How much does a few seconds of time for 200 passengers, weigh up against an hour’s wait for one person who’s going to spend the whole time fuming about the stupid train company and swearing not to use it again? Obviously, at some point you’re going to leave someone behind for the greater good, but there’s a very real judgement call to make when someone’s running along the platform for the train, and the headway between trains is probably the most important factor. In this case, there’s another train in 15 minutes, so it’s not nearly such a big deal to have to wait.
I agree, Steve, people do unexpected and often irrational things, often in the PM peak in Wellington two Karori trolleys would arrive together and all the punters would try to squeeze onto the first bus, I always stood back and got a seat on the second one
but the point in response to Sailor Boy is that people often only think of their own needs and respond to the circumstances presented to them, they don’t do the maths that “if I delay the train by 30 seconds the collective delay to the 60 people on the train is 30 minutes”, they only want to get on the damn train
It would help if AT actually advertised the damned frequencies.
It’s hardly irrational to try to get on a train you want to catch while the doors are still open. The stupid part is A. putting your kids on the train when you don’t have time to get on yourself or B. going through doors that are already shutting. I do sympathise with the woman in this story though – she must have been panicking with two of her kids already on the train, having run ahead, and it must have been a matter of about 2 seconds.
I think the TM should have re-opened the doors if he’d known what was happening. I fully accept the story that he didn’t notice, though. Which is part of why I think TMs aren’t really much use, and the trains should be run by the driver alone.
As for your trolleys, getting on the front bus isn’t irrational at all if you value a quicker journey over getting a seat. No matter what happens, the trolleys can’t overtake each other, so the first bus is getting there first (by a few seconds)!
The other train is 5 minutes away at this stage by the way. Agree regarding hour headways though.
This was a weekday morning peak service, trains run every 5-15 mins at that time of day from there (setting aside that there isn’t actually a train at exactly 7:32 as per the article)
I wasn’t talking specifically about this incident, but just in general.
The picture is also of concern… The story says she has three children but apparently she’s lost one. I wonder if they took the train to go see the Herald columnist…
Also i dont see the need for them to say “watched in horror”.Presumably those kids go to that school/station all the time,its not like they were in someplace that was unkown.(i guess she must walk them to school)what im trying to say is that at a certain age you’d think you’d leave it up to the kids to get there themselves.
How come she hasnt been fined for trespassing on railway property I.e. running down the track, what an incredibly stupid thing to do. I guess it’s transdev and kiwirails fault that she has no common sense!
Might be a bit of a bad look for kiwirail to try charge her for trespass after this has happened.
CCTV does not lie.
The NZH photographer must have gone to the same school as this one from Fairfax……
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/8994604/Girls-trapped-in-train-carriage
The pouty looks of the kids on both are the giveaway?
It’s pretty standard for lthe media, as can be seen in the Angry People In Local Newspapers blog: http://apiln.blogspot.co.nz/
That blog is hilarious. Totally captures this thread in local newspaper coverage.
Felt the same when reading that comment. Purely speculative.
Now I know the frequencies are different but when we were in HK, if you weren’t on, you waited. That was with more services of course but with the CRL and EMU’s we’ll be up there and running like a true metro. Miss the train? Just wait a few minutes.
She really ran two kms down the tracks? Yep it’s all the train’s fault for not stopping for her.
Shame on you Herald, for running something like this.
If she ran 2km down the tracks it would have taken her at least 15 mins, so she must have been passed by a train or two coming from behind… how dangerous is that… not too mention she was pregnant…
Not quite, I canwalk 2k in 15 minutes, as can my overweight middle aged mother.
“Overweight” – Wow, I hope you Mum doesnt read this blog. Mine would kill me for that comment! 🙂
No, she is pretty happy about it haha. She was morbidally obese about 3 years ago, has lost heaps of weight.
CCTV does not support this outrageous claim at all. A number of media outlets, when told/shown this decided not to run the story. The repeater- Eeer “reporter”- at the Herald and their “news” decision makers decided otherwise. A beat up, plain and simple.
Ps- she did not run 2km down the track. She barely moved from the platform. CCTV backs that again. The worst kind of shoddy journalism. Sigh….
Thanks Wally
Where is the CCTV? Anyone got a link?
Issues arose when trains were frequently late, very late and I am taking an educated guess that AT have cracked the whip on Veolia aka Transdev (also formerly known as Connex………) to improve time table adherence. Prior to this trains would wait if someone was running to the train, now station stops are far quicker and fair enough too.
The trouble arises when the passengers turn up around the time a train arrives and hope to buy a ticket or swipe their AT card and then get on (or take the charity ride option). To be fair some of the stops are now damn quick so one cannot muck around.
A simple poster campaign in every station would greatly assist the PR here, stating something like “To improve timetable reliability and to deliver a more efficient reliable service for all our passengers, our train staff are keeping station stop times to a maximum of 30 seconds (for example) Trains will stop between designated marks (illustration) so please be standing and ready to board your train when it arrives. Unfortunately to stay on time our trains cannot wait” Lots of love, Transdev and AT……..something like that anyway!
I agree with Waspman that the whip certainly has been whipped as I was in a similar situation.
But the difference being my wife (pregnant at the time) and a few other passengers were not running for the train but had been waiting patiently and safely on the platform for the train. The conductor blew his whistle while people were still boarding, and then suddenly closed the doors. Luckily my wife was the last one onboard at our door, but a handful of people were stuck outside! I’d hate to think what would’ve happened had the conductor closed the doors any earlier. In the end, the driver opened his door and let the stranded people in. Can’t see why the conductor couldn’t have reopened the doors as it would’ve taken as much or less time than the driver opening his door. But I also can’t understand why the conductor didn’t see, there were clearly people patiently waiting to board the train.
I made a compliant and distinctly remember hearing the announcer over the speaker say this train was running several minutes late. Surely passenger safety is paramount to adhering strictly to the timetable.
Yes Tasi passenger safety should be paramount – theres kids, pregnant ladies, old people, those in wheelchairs, vision impaired
people or those who for some other reason might take a little more time to get onto a train (e.g. older lady the other day struggling
to get up the steps with a hip replacement and it took a while) …..the train is a service for all people so I personally think
safety should be a priority. If I drove my car I am responsible for how I behave to those around me even if I happen to think
I am “in the right” I have to be aware of hazards ….I am assuming that train and bus services are bound by the same rules.
I guess it might be a perspective thing – are we looking at maps and services and timetables as the priority or are we looking at
users and their needs and the human factors involved……. ……..
And thanks for sharing your experience ………….:)
Everyone is very polite here…..and to be honest not what i was expecting….I struggle to understand why this is the trains companies fault……i agree it is not perfect (far from it) but if you had to cater for everyones stupidity then we would not have any network,
If the train is late its the train companies fault, if the train stops and makes everyone late it is the trains companies fault……if someone hurts themselve for not following the rules, its the train companies fault…..
When is it the individauls fault……..
There is clearly more to this story and i would love to see the CCTV footage, so i can make up my own mind.
Some more answers http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/papakura-courier/9008266/Mum-runs-as-train-steals-kids
Well ….I have a similar story ! Again a south Auckland station (Manurewa but a few years ago now) and NO I was NOT
running for the train ……………I was ON the train and trying to get off I had a little baby and was carefully backing off
with my pram and lo and behold the doors started to close – the only thing I could do was push my child in her pram inside
the train and (while the doors closed on my arms) pull my arms out of the doors (luckily they do have a soft squishy bit so
my arms were only red and not grazed) and step away from the train. Meanwhile my Mum and sister in law were luckily still inside
screaming for the conductor to stop the train and could grab my little ones pram.
In the end they got the conductor and the train stopped ……..but it was a horrible experience and if there had
been no-one to grab my baby we would have been in a similar situation (except with an under 6 month old)..
The conductor said verbally to my sister in law he did not realise anyone was getting off there …..
I am sure I must have somehow been at fault for this …..I know when me (and my sister in law who was horrified by the incident)
wrote to Veiloa we did not hear that the guard was at fault ……..we got told “I am sorry you feel that’s what happened
heres a FREE family pass to travel with us again (which I never used)”
There was no discussion of how perhaps they could use it as training to ensure it never happened again or anything like that – they truly
just ignored the importance of it ……….if only I realised I could have asked for the CCTV footage (that was certainly never forthcoming!)
perhaps we could have seen what happened ..
But I can assure you we already were at the door waiting to alight when that train stopped and that between use there was 3 adults and 2 prams
which should have been noticeable and I did not stand and have a gossip while the train doors opened or anything we were all getting off
ASAP ……………….I would actually be VERY interested to see how many people this happens to………….
And I have seen a similar article to the train you you have here for a bus situation (though in that case there was no suggestion of the Mum running late…
will see if I can dig that out from the archives ,…………)
Safety is something our operators need to take seriously and even in situations were they are not “at fault” it is still something where pro-active action
needs to be take to ensure safety ……………..with electrification theres bound to be other safety issues that will come up ….many of them will be not directly the service providers fault but will be something I would imagine we will have to address ………
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/454063/Bus-terror-for-toddler
I think this one was the one I was thinking of …….
in my searches I also came across this one …….
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5111965/Toddler-and-pram-left-hanging-outside-bus
Those are pretty bad, at least there was disciplinary action.
Yes – the bus companies involved took the complaints seriously if we have faith in what is written here ………if we can move on and
make positive of these situations then hopefully they are less likely to happen again ………..
My personal experience with the train service provider
was not similar to that – almost like they did not believe me nor my sister in law …..which I felt concerning as I was motivated to
write to them (as was my sister in law) by what I felt was quite serious implications of the situation ..I did not care about
any sort of free ticket – I simply wanted them to educate their staff and improve processes so it did not happen again ……..very different attitude ……….
perhaps I should have tried to take it further than directly to the company but at the time with such a young baby (it was
a while ago) I was simply put of using trains ….I think it took me a good 6 months to try again ……….
So I do wonder how things have changed in terms of attitudes since then ……….how often does this sort of thing actually happen ?
I think those on this board that made assumptions about the poor woman should also make an apology!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/papakura-courier/9019297/Rail-operator-backtracks-for-mum
Agreed!
No assumptions were made by anyone, just relying off information given by the news article. If Transdev lied in the original article, then they are the only people who owe an apology!
“did she and her kids tag on/buy a ticket or were they just intending to travel for free? I’m guessing the latter” reads like an assumption to me.
She is definitely owed an apology and retraction.
And as an aside to that (but related) ….you have to assume that the ticket machine was even working …….I was on the train (kid free even go figure !)
the other day – a guy got on and told the ticket inspectors the ticket booth in the station
was not working and then they were talking about how they’d call that in …..and one commented on the run the day before
they’d called in 4 of them ………….so that would imply to me these machines are having quite a bit of downtime……
I don’t think the article you linked to actually addressed whether she bought a ticket or not.
Thanks for posting that link Chris …it gets easy to jump to judgement sometimes 🙂 And well done to the paper for
printing further clarification too…………
Its also a good reminder what you see in the paper is often not the full story which is often hard to get to (a friend who had something fairly horrible
happen that was reported on once said to me the only detail totally correct was the name …..)