The first of our new electric trains has rolled off the production line in Spain and is now only days away from being loaded onto a ship to make its way to Auckland. AT have released this video that shows a bit more of what the drivers cab will look like.
You can see previous posts including pictures of them here.
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Congratulations to everyone involved. Wonderful!
SO exciting! Still wish the front was white, but hey…
“David, the first of Auckland’s electric trains…”
I think we have found a name for one of them!
Or for all of them…
Now that was exhilarating commentary…
Somebody at AT has evidently been watching Amtrak rolling stock launches: http://youtu.be/oLdCeSa3bdM
Hopefully they fit panels around the coupler area before shipping. And speaking of couplers, it’s disappointing to see non-standard couplers used on the new trains. Looks like when a train needs to be pushed by a freight train, staff will need to climb down and fit a transition head of some kind? Should be just AAR couplers on everything.
Being pushed by a freight train will (hopefully!) be a very rare occurence, but coupling/uncoupling sets will happen daily, and the ability to do that from the cab (no-one on the ground) makes autocouplers a lot safer.
They are standard auto-couplers. Matangi are also getting an upgrade to have them as well.
There will be far more EMUs available to push a broke down EMU than number of freight locos.
The auto couplers look pretty sweet. I just arrived back from europe, and the S-bahn we used in munich had them. “Train splits here, the front half will go to [some suburb / satellite town], the rear half will go to the airport], If you are in the wrong half transfer now”.
Splitting trains is also quite common on Japanese suburban lines. Some of the JR lines are 15 (!) cars for part of their journey, and then lop off the last four cars for the outer suburbs an satellite city areas.
“They’re on time, which is amazing”
And probably for the last time in their service lives too…
Now if only the passengers can be as well….
can’t wait to ride on the new trains
Ending diesel services in Auckland
Fantastic news this, hopefully not too many teething problems.
Call me a cynic but with AT involved I wouldn’t be surprised if it arrived here and they found they got the gauge wrong!
I’ll miss the old diesel locos. I know that’s a minority view but I like standing along side a 1500HP diesel when it starts spooling up to move off. I guess you have to appreciate engines (or have sniffed too many exhaust fumes) to understand it.
There’ll still be diesel locos hauling freight so you can still get your fix of carcinogenic fumes that way.
I’ll have to go hang out at the stations late at night. Trainspotting after dark!
Anyone know the name of the ship that the first train is being delivered on?
With a little detective work, it’s probably the Tysla, since it’s the only ship that comes close to fitting AT’s description of the route. It departed Santander on Sunday, will travel via Baltimore, Savannah and Manzanillo, arriving in Auckland on 24 August.
http://sagaweb.2wglobal.com/AppSchedules/
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?mmsi=249909000
Also being updated here: http://www.bettertransport.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4389
Completely off topic but you guys got another movie/ fundraising night planned? I missed the last one and it would be good to put faces to names (apart from Matt’s who seems to be all over the tv these days!)
Yes one is under planning. We can’t release any more details at this stage though.
Okay thanks Matt. The topics have just refreshed for me where you have one talking about this. I must check out why the topics were not updating. Look forward to a get together.
Auckland doesn’t need trains. Tracks don’t go to where people live eg Botany or North Shore.
Ah, but busways could. Would you suggest ripping up the current rail lines?
Using this same kind of thinking Valerie then every train track on earth, such as London, Paris, New York, Tokyo, or Singapore et al would need to be removed! The same thinking and we would have to dig up Auckland International Airport, because planes don’t go anywhere near where people live, eg Birkenhead or West Auckland.
Is that you David Willmott?
Wait, tracks don’t go to where people live? So people don’t live in the 44 suburbs of Auckland that currently have a railway station in them?
No, trains in SG run across residential suburbs and along shopping streets. Is there any train that goes to Botany? Or Wairau valley shopping area? Henderson and Sylvia Park being the only exclusion. Digging out the airport is not my thinking because if planes go near where people live, those people wont be able to sleep well – too noisy. Excuse my stupid thinking – what stops you from running a shuttle bus across the CBD every 2 minutes during peak hours and 10-15 minutes at daytime and weekends when patronage is low. Those shuttle busses then would feed passengers to express non-stop routes to Botany or North Shore. Then other shuttles would bring people home in those suburbs. Much cheaper than the useless trains to Kingsland or Otahuhu.
2 things will happen with your shuttle bus idea, either they won’t provide the capacity or 2, in the attempt to match the capacity, massive amounts of new tarmic will need to laid and these shuttles would severely clog the roads many times worse than now.
Valerie, your thinking is not stupid but I don’t feel that you understand the issues that the CRL fixes. You can find info on that here: http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/city-rail-link/crl-benefits/increasing-rail-capacity/ and if you watched campbell Live tonight (also available on TV3 on-demand and TV3 +1 but be quick)
Also, you need to understand how the new Public transport network (completion 2016) will work. More info can be found here: http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2013/06/17/new-network-consultation-starts-this-week/
Please have a read / watch of these and you will find the answers you are looking for.
is there anywhere a research on how often these stupid rail link trains will run and how much it would cost? If its every half an hour and $5 – than walking to kingsland from britomart is faster and cheaper.
Yes it’s on the same page showing the economics of motorways.
Valerie, you’re coming into this with a lot of baseless assumptions – what has you assuming trains every half an hour and $5? And why have you already decided it’s stupid, is it based on those already wrong figures?
Trains between Kingsland and Britomart (going the long way via Newmarket) are already more frequent during the peak (every 15 mins), and cheaper (adult full fare one way $1.90 cash, $1.62 with a AT HOP card). By 2016 the frequency will be every 10 mins peak, 15 mins offpeak/weekend. When the CRL comes it’ll be every 5 mins peak, and most likely something like every 10 mins off-peak.
Roads are there to carry cars. They are not to stay empty. If passengers travel on shuttle busses – they won’t be in their private cars and a bus carries more than 5 people. I just dont see how having the inner-city shuttle could add up to clogging.The problem with the existing buses is that they dont go WHERE people need to go and WHEN they need it. So many times I’ve seen 2 or more busses of the same number or route (eg 258+267 or 277+274) chasing each other and carrying 3-4 pax each.I also remember running around CBD myself trying to figure out where to catch a public bus to north shore – some of them didnt take the hop card, others had different departure stops at night and daytime (ended up walking to victoria park). Hence the solution: get a shuttle bus (similar to that one that runs to dressmart or the fishmarket) that would take people to major junctions around CBD, be it victoria park northbound or newmarket to get to eastern suburbs and make sure they run every 3 minutes guaranteed. Hire more drivers. Get people jobs. Fire those slacker planners in AT because they dont know how to do their job properly. Then see how many people would prefer to take the publc transport instead of commuting into CBD by car. It’s far more cheaper than building the tunnels and buying the trains from overseas. And the positive effects can be seen in much faster future. If the trains run just every 30 minutes – they will not solve the problem, people still would prefer driving.
Valerie, you obviously did not go and read any information from the links I posted or took the time to watch Campbell Live. Talking of tunnels, would you care to comment on the Waterview tunnel? That’s very expensive.
“Roads are there to carry cars” – are you sure? Roads have been around for thousands of years, cars are quite late on the scene – only been predominant since the 1940s.
HOP will be sorted by December.
Your different day/night stops problem has already been fixed.
Your shuttle bus will have insufficient capacity. The Northern Express alone (the bus from Britomart that goes up the Northern Busway) peaks at one bus every three minutes, and that’s pretty full.
Quite simply, buses and the roads they run on (still shared with cars, remember) will soon not have the required capacity to move people around central Auckland. And running buses to make that capacity will require four lanes of buses and no other traffic on those roads – try catching a bus going up Symonds St in the peak, it’s often hard getting the correct bus to stop for you – the bus stop may be full of other buses so your bus driver can’t see you, you can’t see him/her, and the bus sails right past. You will end up back in exactly the same set of problems that you describe are wrong with things as they are now.
You’re saying the buses are too complex and confusing, but what you propose will make them even more complex, congested and confusing!
Oh and you’re spelling “buses” wrong.
And trains already run more frequently than 30 minutes. I would suggest some research.
Oh and why are you continually assuming that the trains will only run every 30 minutes?
We already run, not shuttles, but full-size buses across the CBD – way more often than one every 2 minutes at peak times, and they’re packed full. Even back in 2011 during the peak we were running a bus every 40 seconds from the North Shore down Fanshawe Street and a bus every 34 seconds down Symonds Street from the isthmus, south and east. There’s plenty more services coming from the west and east off Great North Road, Quay Street etc too.
http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2011/05/26/improving-buses-in-auckland%E2%80%99s-city-centre-part-ii/
We’re adding more services over time, which is starting to become a congestion problem itself. The main reason why we need the City Rail Link is that we’re simply running out of space to get more buses into the CBD without banning cars on some streets entirely.
First, it’s not just for running trains through the city – it connects with the existing network. The trains going west won’t stop at Kingsland, they’ll keep going on the existing western line through Mt Albert, Avondale, New Lynn, Henderson etc to Swanson at the far edge of the city. Or to the south, through Newmarket and beyond to Otahuhu, Manukau or Papakura.
Also, the trains are going to be running far more than one every half hour. We already run 15 trains per hour, and that’ll be 20 trains per hour when our new electric trains are running. But that’s the limit for Britomart. The CRL frees up the bottleneck in Britomart by connecting the two lines together. Each train now carries passengers into the city when travelling each way, rather than reversing out and running largely empty back the way it came. With the CRL we’ll be able to run effectively 48 trains per hour into the city across all the lines.
And it makes the trains more compelling to travellers who are going to the central city, with new stations near Aotea Square, K Rd and on Symonds Street in Newton.
Have a look at the “City Rail Link” link at the top of this page to read a bit more about it (or I’ve handily linked to it here – http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/city-rail-link/)
Ah, I see what your advocating. T.A.X.I.’s. oh, we already have these, and the anocdotal evidence shows how these are successfully fixing Auckland’s transport woes. How’s that Tui’s add go again?
FYI Valerie works for Supershuttle, the airport transfer company.
So much for going where and when people need to, last time I took a shuttle they insisted on picking me up two full hours before I needed to be at the airport so they could drive all over the suburbs collecting other customers! The Airbus is much faster and regular in my experience.
Ahh, that explains a lot.
Valerie, have a look at the blog posts here on the city centre future access study. Roads like Symonds st just can’t cope with the volume of traffic, even if people are in large buses. Also, small buses mean high driver costs per passenger.
The difference in fixed costs between a empty big bus and a full big bus are negligible. The fuel burn would barely be noticeable and the driver’s wages still need to be paid. If we run lots more smaller shuttle, the wage bill alone would be astronomical.
i’ve never seen those larger busses on symonds street full, yet quite often i see up to 6 of them, carrying 3-4 pax each and following each other all the way from britomart to at least the grafton bridge. That’s where the congestion comes from. If you have a bus that is quaranteed to show up in less than 3 min, you won’t be queueing at that particular stop for that particular service. If one gets full, people back off, wait 2 min and get onto the next one. I’m not inventing the wheel here, that’s how it works in Hong Kong where local shuttles (not those small vans as in airport super shuttle, full-sized double deckers) pick up people from train stations and bring them to their homes. SG is tad smaller than HK yet busses are employed in similar mode. North shore may get a bus every 40 sec along fanshawe st, but there is nothing that would bring people from newmarket or k road to there. Train is not an option to that cuz it will take longer and cost more.
Nice references to HK and SG – places with rail to compliment their extensive bus/tram network. Why? because the latter can’t do it on its own for capacity and cost reasons.
Which is where Auckland finds itself. Which is why we promote rail to compliment the bus network.
So, as you say, why reinvent the wheel?
Valerie: “that’s how it works in Hong Kong where local shuttles (not those small vans as in airport super shuttle, full-sized double deckers) pick up people from train stations and bring them to their homes.”
Great idea and what is being proposed as part of the new bus network. Only our rail capacity is almost full due to the Britomart constraint. So we need to fix that, hence the CRL.
Funnily enough, what you propose is what the CRL is designed to facilitate.
There are buses that already carry out the function you decribed Valerie. The Link buses. With priority measures these services would be fast, frequent and cheap. I have used it a couple of times and it was packed.
“If one gets full, people back off, wait 2 min and get onto the next one.”
Huh?
If I’m trying to get from Symonds St (or better example: from Victoria St opposite the Skytower) to Owairaka, there’s only two out of dozens of routes that pass that origin point that go my way, I have to get on the correct bus (and if it’s crowded, make sure the driver sees). Valerie, how does your proposal change this? Where do these buses coming every 2-3 minutes come from and go to?
Thats exactly what is planned in the new network. All the buses along Symonds St going to South Auckland, Ellerslie and Mt Wellington etc will dissapear. Those are the ones that are empty. People will instead catch a local bus to their local station, and then jump on a fast, new, reliable electric trains.http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/improving-transport/new-network/Pages/default.aspx
to Luke: I cant see how digging a tunnel at a huge cost would facilitate that. What Auckland needs is either a new network of tracks built to where people need to go – that is residential areas, not stations like penrose and otahuhu, but it’s hard to design and build. Or “trunk routes” of busses that run non-stop on motorways could do that job.
to Andrew: my idea is a fast and extremely frequent city shuttle (more likely than one route through CBD) that would take you from skytower to somewhere around Dominion Road-Balmoral area from where you would hop on another less frequent local route that goes around wider mt roskill -blockhouse bay rd area (and never leaves it). Also that junction around balmoral could be a terminus of a non-stop fast bus route to henderson. Or how about bringing that junction at St Lukes westfield shopping mall so it looks more like the Sylvia park one. The whole approach requires analysis of the commuter flows – where people live and where they wanna go. Even though there are trains to henderson now, western motorway is packed westbound every evening and so is st lukes road. All those people definitely must be going to or from somewhere where trains / existing busses dont reach. Making those busses go the right ways is much cheaper than digging a rail tunnel under CBD (leave alone earthquakes).
to Bryce: Link buses are good idea but not so well implemented. They are not frequent enough, taking up to 15 minutes to show up, not reliable and they don’t do anything to stop all these long-haul routes to get into CBD. That’s how we get 479, 478, 398 and 277, carrying 2-3 pax each and following each other all the way down symonds st to britomart. My idea is terminate those long hauls somewhere out of cbd so that all the passengers can be brought into city on link buses. That’s how you get enough people to fill those link buses every 1-2-3 minutes. And that’s how you educate people to rely on buses because they are so frequent and easy to use. I live in cbd and whenever i need to get to skytower, i’d either drive or walk, because the green link is a) once every half hour on weekends; b) stops for indefinite time at customs st post shop (and c- often late), which all makes it useless. A successful example is however, the orange link stopping at University of Auckland and taking kids to Newmarket via the hardly walkable motorway-crossing-like shortcut.
I still cant see how building rail would help. Auckland doesnt get a steady flow of commuters throughout the day, unlike HK or SG. CBD roads are relatively quite even on weekdays after 10 am. What would all these trains do during that time? Sleep in their tunnels? Buses are easier to add more when required and if buses are a) reliable and b) take people from where they live to where they wanna go – i see no reason why most people would prefer to drive than take public transport.
(Well, of course there are reasons, and that’s why some people prefer getting a cab out of / to the airport in Bangkok despite of the newish rail link: price being one – if you get 2 or more people a cab is cheaper – but again – that also takes cars off the road rather than adding them).
There could be some text-a-bus auxiliary services when people waiting at an inner-city bus stop could text their demand so more shuttle links could be sent to that area but that’s after patrons get confidence in public transport. Now what’s the point that I see that board at every bus stop, it says the bus was due 5 mins ago but it’s not here yet. Do i get a free ride if the service was late? Mission bay is a very popular area on summer weekends. Yet public buses are one every 20 or 30 minutes. If there were shuttles, they could be just sent there when passengers want them. If people were confident about that, they wouldnt drive and save the effort of looking for a parking spot.
Valerie, your “core” buses will be just as subject to bunching as the Link ones. When you say a bus every 2-3 mins, reality, traffic lights and buses stopping while passengers board while the one behind catches up with it will result in the same bunching and uneven fill that the current bus network suffers from. I understand the Inner Link buses actually peak on the staff schedule at one every 7 mins – but as you know this almost never fits reality. Can you tell us how your idea will not be subject to the same problems?
The advantages of rail are:
– lots of doors facilitating very fast boarding and alighting, instead of just one at the front, reducing delays and bunching
– exclusive right-of-way, also reducing chances of delays and bunching
– electric traction eliminating pollutants and diesel fumes
– stations allowing separation of fare payment and boarding so one doesn’t hold up the other for everyone already on board and waiting further down the line.
Your solution for how I get to Owairaka will happen anyway with Auckland Transport’s New Network – fast, quiet and comfortable electric train to the beautifully rebuilt Mt Albert Station (stage 1 was finished last month), then local bus (shown in yellow on the draft maps) along Mt Albert Rd to my home. This network will make trips easier to/from points all over the city, not just the CBD, and the rail lines are completely separated from road traffic.
And on capacity, some numbers: Auckland’s already-under-construction new electric trains (the very first one is on this ship on its way here from Spain now) have a peak seated+standing capacity of 746, and will run at one every 10 mins or less – that’s 4,476 per hour.
Once the CRL opens rail’s per-hour per-line capacity will double – with one every 5 mins on each line, the number carried per hour per line becomes 8,952.
A three-axle (ie, large) bus seats about 51 with standing room for about 20 – 71. One every two minutes is 30 an hour – moving up to 2,130 an hour – less than half the capacity – and a lot of diesel fumes. These buses will be subject to traffic lights and some congestion, and as mentioned before will be as subject to bunching as the Link buses.
Before you propose electric buses I need to point out that the technology is still young and building electric or hybrid buses is very expensive as they need to carry and charge some very heavy batteries. Auckland tried them on the old “City Circuit” route, and they all failed. Christchurch had a couple which worked out better due to flat terrain, but they’ve been mothballed since the quakes and have now been sold off as they’re uneconomic to maintain. Electric rail on the other hand is a proven and highly mature technology used worldwide which on a per-passenger basis is far cheaper (assuming enough passengers, which is why it’s best suited for “trunk” routes).
Also, your argument that rail does not go where people are is self-defeating. If you don’t build out to where (some) people are, then of course it won’t go there – nothing, not even Auckland’s roads, and especially not Auckland’s motorways, magically appeared overnight – every single one had to be built.
The beauty of rail is that buses extend their reach – and for larger areas, busways like the southeast busway to Howick and Botany will greatly assist.
Additionally, rail DOES go close to where people live (like myself). That it may not currently go to where you live is not a valid reason to deny the service to me.
I have never seen that same argument given as a reason not to build a road somewhere.
When did you last catch a train? Auckland’s rail network was in a decrepit state for a long time up til mid last decade, and now it is three-quarters of the way through a massive upgrade, and is now attracting people. Patronage has gone up from less than 3 million passengers a year in 2003 to over 10 million a year now, even with the interim diesel fleet. With bigger, faster, quieter electric trains it will get higher, as did Perth’s patronage 25 years ago.
Your assumption that rail isn’t well used off-peak is also wrong – as an any-time-of-the-day West line user myself, I can assure you the trains are well filled all day every weekday. Weekend services have suffered from low frequencies and construction shutdowns, but that’s now set to be fixed up by the end of October when weekend trains increase to half-hourly. They will increase again to quarter-hourly on weekends by 2016 when the electrics enter service – possibly earlier.
Valerie you stubbornly misunderstand what the CRL does. Your compliant seems to be a version of the ‘I don’t care about the CBD, Auckland is suburban’ line. As well as some idea that trains are no good or don’t work, or something…?
The key purpose of the CRL is that it turns our current CBD focused rail commuter system into a Metro one. Every train will route through the city; it instantly becomes a more flexible and much less city centric system while at once serving this vital area, still, remember, the generator the majority of journeys.
This is linked with exactly what you propose; frequent and direct feeder buses to new efficient interchange stations; at least every 15 mins, often more frequent. And of course the rail system is not subject to traffic congestion, and with the CRL, the frequency will improve from every 10mins on much of the network. True turn up and go, completely separate from traffic hold ups and connected across the wider city through the new cross city bus system.
With this new power and capacity the rail network can then be expanded, yes this will take time but rail lines are permanent, forever, a real solution, not dependent on imported oil or unclogged streets.
I can’t see anything in your comments that is an improvement to this future, especially starting from where we already are and the resources we have.
That’s the problem, Patrick Reynolds (apparently of AT). You just want your toy trains. And fail to accept that if you want to get from Mt Roskil to Penrose you dont want to commute through the CBD. Even if you get all the trains you want, when you need to get from Henderson to Sylvia park, i’m 100% you’ll get in your car.
I don’t understand why rail investment must mean it can go to every single place on the isthmus. Buses can’t get you to waiheke, but we still spend money on those. Rail is one part of an integrated transport solution and can carry significantly more people in a corridor than buses or motorway lanes.
You suggest shuttling people to tain stations on buses but there won’t be enough trains to carry them – anywhere on the network – if the current dead-end at Britomart remains. The CRL fixes that dead-end.
Why is this so difficult to understand? Unless you don’t really want to understand it?
Actually Valerie you can take trains from Henderson to Sylvia Park – interchanging @ Britomart!
3 times now I have taken a ferry from Birkenhead to Britomart and train to Sylvia Park – far more enjoyable than driving and finding a car space.
Valerie, if you’ll take a few seconds to study the key at the bottom of the CFN maps, you’ll find that at least 6 of the 11 proposed lines are proposed to be bus lines.. Looks like this invalidates your toy trains comment.
Also interested in your responses to my above post re capacity constraints, traffic and bunching problems, emissions, vehicle boarding speeds, when it was that you last took a look first-hand at how the rail network is doing, and all the other stuff.
Welcome to the blog Valerie.
It would be great to hear what your suggestions are to improve Auckland’s transport problems. You obviously have lots of ideas so please feel free to share them. The blog is always very keen to have guest posts.
Of course, you will be required to provide evidence for all your solutions and preferably costings. Remember too that the CFN will only cost $10bn so please keep your suggestions within that range.
I also suggest reading the Central City Future Access Study so you can see all the options that have already been considered and rejected (and which concluded the CRL for Patrick’s “toy trains” was the best solution).
I look forward to seeing your suggestions.
Just one point on the Mt Roskill to Penrose question – there was originally a rail link planned from Mt Roskill through to Onehunga as a kind of Isthmus loop. This was provided for in a 1951 plan and in fact the rail designation is still there and part of it would be used to build the spur to Mt Roskil proposed in the CFN. That plan was replaced by the National government with the 1955 Master Transportation Plan, which is the main culprit for the horrendous transport situation we have now.
If people like Patrick had got their “toy trains” in 1951, you would now be able to take a train from Mt Roskill direct to Penrose. Imagine how much nicer your commute would be.
Hi Gusooid,
You had the plan to build rail in 1951. Now is 2013. Labour has had power for quite a while. Yet you are blaming the National government. That’s nice. You should understand that building roads and transport links has nothing to do with politics, parties, etc. It’s about economics. If something is required and someone is willing to pay for it – it should be built.
As for your suggestion that i’m “required” to provide evidence and cost calculations for my transport solutions – I”m not working for Auckland Transport, it is not my job to do that. Apparently, there are professionals who have been employed by the Auckland council, they are being paid for getting this kind of solutions and are supposed to be competent in what they are doing. However, 3-4 busses in a row, each carrying not more than 10 pax while there are people waiting at the curb clearly indicate that these Auckland Transport boffins are not doing their job properly. I would definitely vote any mayor who is against the rail link and other unrealistic projects. People like them and Patrick should not spend public money to buy their toys.
I used to commute from Mt Roskil to Pukekohe. 2.5 hours, bussing to britomart, then catching a train. I do not understand why I needed a train to be built from Mt Roskil to Penrose. It would be much nicer if the bus timetable was aligned so that I could take 267 to Mt Albert road, then 007 (or 008, cant recall what it was) to Sylvia Park, then the train. Probably it’s too cheap for Auckland Transport to get involved with.
This is not about trains or buses in particular it is about getting a public transport system that works well and efficiently and making the best use of what we have. More people commuting on this network means less cars on the road. Even a 20% shift makes a massive difference in whether the road network works to a good level or not..which is the case right now!!!