With confirmation that Snapper have been kicked out of the integrated ticketing project, the rollout of the AT HOP card is now underway. This will start first on the trains, as detailed on the MAXX website. The biggest change is that we are (finally) shifting our ticket sales away from the 1920s approach of selling them onboard:
On-board ticket sales are being phased out
Get used to buying your ticket before you board. You can also buy a single paper ticket before you get on the train at easy to use Ticket & Top Up machines at all rail stations where you can use cash, eftpos or credit cards.
Please Note: If you get a transfer ticket, please continue buying this on-board.
With the AT HOP card being based on stored value, there will also no longer be a need for 10 trip tickets. I presume that 10 trip tickets will also be phased out on the bus network – for some reason this wasn’t done with the first phase of implementing HOP, though it’s incredibly rare to see anyone using multi-journey rather than stored value these days.
10 Trip tickets are being replaced
10 Trip tickets will be replaced by the new Auckland Transport HOP prepay card (AT HOP). You will still keep your 10 Trip ticket discount on the AT HOP card.
10 September 2012:
10 Trip tickets will no longer be sold on-board trains or rail replacement buses.27 October 2012:
You can still buy 10 Trip tickets from Ticket Offices and Ticket Agents until 27 October 2012.From 28 October 2012 10 Trip tickets will be replaced by the AT HOP card. If you have a 10 Trip ticket, you can still use it until its expiry date which will be stamped on the ticket so you can use the full value.
From 28 October the new AT HOP card will be activated and will be able to be used on the rail network. On this date there will be quite a number of changes – these are listed below:
- Tagging-on and tagging-off will ensure that you receive discounted travel automatically.
- 10 Trip tickets for rail will be replaced by HOP Money loaded onto your AT HOP card and no longer be available for purchase.
- Adult Monthly Rail Passes (City Monthly, All Zones, and Regional) will be replaced by loading an adult monthly pass onto the AT HOP card.
- You can still buy the current child monthly passes at Ticket Offices and Ticket Agents.
- Day Rover tickets will no longer be sold.
- $1 charge for bikes will be discontinued for all customers; free travel for bikes at staff discretion through busy periods.
Single tickets will presumably still be sold on board for a bit longer, although eventually I think that will be phased out as well – as the tickets will be able to be purchased from the machines at the stations.
One big unanswered question is whether people will be able to get one of the new AT HOP cards for free, while still retaining their existing HOP/Snapper card. As it may be until this time next year before the AT HOP card is working on all bus services, resolving this issue will be critical. There will still inevitably be a lot of confusion, perhaps best summarised in Brian Rudman’s article today:
That HOP card is the one used on NZ Bus vehicles. It’s already here. But it looks different from the new AT HOP card.
The existing card tells me in large type it is “Your ticket to Auckland”, but it isn’t, and never will be. It’s not compatible with the new HOP card, as anyone who tries to hop off a bus and on to a train will soon discover.
For the minority of us who have followed the Byzantine twists and turns of this saga, this comes as little surprise. But for the ordinary commuter about to be battered by another marketing campaign to get a HOP card, I can see nothing but confusion.
I’ve already got one. No you haven’t. Get off the bus, that HOP card doesn’t work … Do you take cash?
This is going to be a bit messy.
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AT should have dumped the HOP brand when they dumped Snapper, to reduce confusion.
I wonder if the new AT HOP card will be accepted on the City Link, “free with HOP”?
I was thinking they could just do manual identification of cards by drivers, as it’s probably too hard to set it up to be read by the Snapper equipment.
Or just make it free for everyone (faster boarding beats an incentive to use HOP).
One would think that if they were able to set up the Snapper equipment to read the AT Hop cards, we wouldn’t have had this whole Snapper mess.
I also agree, why not make the City Link free for all?
Wouldn’t it be exactly the same as the A-Pass, which were Thales cards. They worked on both the Snapper and Thales system. Now I think about it, it probably isn’t that hard, running a proper integrated ticketing system is a lot different to just being let on a bus free.
Did the A-Pass scan on the Snapper reader?
According to the AT media release back before the games, yes.
From here:
So, yes, Thales and Snapper are compatible for pre-paid unlimited passes, just not anything more.
I always thought that the A-Pass when getting on buses was down to the driver’s visual acknowledgement that you have a valid pass, much like the current monthly tickets. Tagging on was only for the pedestals at train stations, etc. I could be mistaken.
You could well be right Akarana, as I never actually saw anyone use an A-Pass during the RWC, I was just believing what the press releases said at the time. Maybe the system really are too different to even read the same card and beep.
One question I haven’t seen addressed yet is whether individual commuters will notice anything different other than having just one way to pay (the same fares). For example, I already get a discount by buying 10-trip tickets. But my most frequent commute involves a train and a bus–will this transfer be covered by a single AT HOP fare? Or will I be charged twice, just as I am now, using the AT HOP card? (Obviously that won’t happen until next year in any case, but will it ever happen?)
It is worrying at this point that AT hasn’t said anything about reducing the costs of multiple-segment travel. You’d think that if they were going to do that, their PR department would be all over it at this point. They need customers to want the new system, otherwise it will be seen as just a really expensive way to get the same result they do now.
Oh, and I certainly hope we will be able to top up the AT HOP card online. Again, no mention of this.
AT have already confirmed that topping up online will be available, including automatic top-ups once your balance reaches a certain threshold. Integrated fares should also be following soon – planning for this is already in progress.
In regards to Integrated Fares on the CBT Forum:
According to Joshua Arbury (who works for AT, and is the ex-author of this blog):
Technical point … Josh works for Auckland Council (AC), not AT. So look for the Council’s Transport Committee agenda, and not the AT reports.
It’s not published yet, but when it is, it’ll show here, most likely under their currently scheduled meeting date of September 5.
I’d be really interested to see if the AT Hop supports topping up online and then tagging on to a bus to receive the top up. I understand that if you tag on to a train station or ferry validator then you should receive your top-up there and then. I wonder if bus validators will connect wirelessly to the back end system to receive notification of the top up, or if you have to wait until the next day?
Cameron, autotop up works in an interesting fashion. Auto top-up works through an action list which is the first action that happens when you Tag the card. Assume you have an auto-top for $50 at a threshold of $10 (this information sits on the card too) – when the balance goes below $10, auto top-up will be actioned and $50 will be added to the card. Nothing will get deducted from the bank until overnight direct debit happens. System will try for 3 days- If the direct debit is not successful for 3 days, card will appear in grey list. AIFS back office will then manually blacklist the card.
You guessed it – you can get three days of free travel but at the cost of dishonour fee and blacklisting. The point is no wireless communication – its a batch process that happens overnight. Same for all modes of transport!!
For the auto-top up to enable for the very first time, it need to be set up through the portal or back office. For this to set the auto top-up parameter on card you need to Tag on once. Yes, auto-top will not work the very first time. It will be engaged from second time though.
Phase 1 is getting a single card that works for buying any operators fare products. While there has been some suggestion of a small transfer rebate, it’s otherwise the exact same fare structure.
Phase 2 is an integrated fare structure, probably based around unlimited transfers within zones.
Nick- In the future, you get transfer discounts for first three legs of journey. But maximum fare will be ceiled at dicovery pass rate!
> Adult Monthly Rail Passes (City Monthly, All Zones, and Regional) will be replaced by loading an adult monthly pass onto the AT HOP card.
ugh. No. Really?
It’s 2012. Why can’t we just travel wherever/whenever at a good rate, to a cap per (day/week/month/year) across *all modes* like any sane system? The monthly passes (for bus and train) require Excel to work out whether it’s cheaper than a set of 10-trip tickets — especially if you only do 5/6/7/8 trips a week, let alone take PT elsewhere.
Surely this stuff should have been worked out over the last 3 years — it doesn’t depend on any technology, French or Otherwise. Why not roll get it rolled out from Day 1?
Those in charge don’t want to confuse people by changing the fare structure at the same time as the card, so they are only making necessary changes and leaving fares until later. I think this is sensible although many (obviously including you) would disagree.
The question rally is how soon will proper fares be introduced. I don’t see any reason why we should have to wait very long after the card is introduced.
> Those in charge donāt want to confuse people by changing the fare structure at the same time as the card, so they are only making necessary changes and leaving fares until later. I think this is sensible although many (obviously including you) would disagree.
Based on how pissed off people are that they can’t buy 10-trip passes on the train any more (from me overhearing numerous conversations), offering an “upside” to this whole saga for Average Joe might be a good thing.
Also seems most people haven’t grokked that 10-trip prices are the same as the “10% HOP discount”. Although 1 & 2 stage train customers get stiffed – the HOP price is higher than existing 10-trip rates.
10 trip prices= HOP money price. What you are seeing Rob is a wider thing. Making bus prices= train prices..!!! Funny, but thats the case!
Not even Oyster (London) and Myki (Melbourne) have monthly fare caps – just daily caps. You still need to pre-load longer-term passes on to them.
Really? Ick. Why?
Just seems like a way to stiff the customer the same way ISPs and mobile telcos do, by making you “guess” your usage in advance. Which will be wrong 100% of the time – so you’re always paying more than you need to.
The system needs to orientate itself around being fair, where customers will always get the lowest possible price for what they actually use, without having to do *anything*.
We don’t have to look very far for a reasonably sane system: Christchurch (http://metroinfo.co.nz) has free transfers (within two hours of your first trip, so quick return trips are included in one fare), a daily fare cap of two trips, and a weekly cap of five days (commuters who take the bus to work every day travel for free on weekends). And it works on both buses and the Diamond Harbour ferry, with real time online top up. It’s a simpler fare structure because most of the city is one zone (no, not “red zone”!), so there’s no need to tag off, but it seems that most of the infrastructure has been in place for years.
I agree – going down the Melbourne / Christchurch approach rather than the Wellington / Brisbane (small zones and consequently high fares) approach is best.
Considering in Melbourne last time I was there they were paying 6bux for day pass, eg. Max fare per day is 6bux. It’s not too bad, where we are paying over double that for the equivalent.
Yeah, even with recent fare increases in Melbourne, travelling by train there is much much cheaper (apart from the shortest trips – ie, Britomart-Newmarket distance) than it is in Auckland. That’s unfortunate.
Thales system is *technically* able to set daily cap, weekly cap and monthly cap. It’s a policy decision, not a technical decision.
The AT card will be a free upgrade for HOP card users, as mentioned in this email from Auckland Transport to users last Friday:
“There will be no change to how you currently use your HOP Snapper card on NZ Bus services but eventually your HOP Snapper card will be phased out and replaced for free with the new AT HOP card when NZ Bus services become part of the integrated ticketing system.”
Correct, but the problem arises for those who use trains and buses, who will possible have to buy a AT HOP in October, just to get a second free one next year when Snapper HOP is phased out. This commuter will end up $10 out of pocket with a second, unnecessary card.
Considering how much this whole debacle has cost to get to this point, shouldn’t those who have Snapper HOP cards be getting the new HOP card for free? How much would it cost AT overall? I would love to know that actual cost to AT per card.
Bryce, I think you are confused.
AT are giving Snapper HOP users and AT HOP for free, the problem is for people who would like an AT HOP for trains/ferries while they still need to use their Snapper HOP for NZBus buses.
I think this is complicated, but a process should be put in place so Snapper HOP users can get their AT HOP early, but then have their Snapper card number in the system as ‘already issued’ so they don’t get a second free card next year. Obviously to do this ‘HOP helpers’ will have to have a card reader of sorts on them, that is networked and has good battery life.
To answer your question, the cost of the card is pretty negligible, but the $10 is to stop people cheating the system buy putting their card into negative balance (this is done by boarding with enough cash for a stage, but travelling more stages).
I’d expect (I haven’t heard anything to verify this) that one way to do it would be to charge $10 for the AT Hop, but when it comes time to surrender the Snapper Hop (or SnOP), instead of getting a second AT Hop when you hand your SnOP in, you could opt to have a $10 credit on your AT Hop instead.
Makes a lot of sense. A lot less complicated than what I suggested.
That’s what I meant but obviously stuffed it up :-). I agree that anyone who currently has a Snapper HOP card should get a AT HOP card as soon as they are released. As for cheating the system, well, it will only be for a relatively short time.
Andrew’s reply sounds like the best idea. Then hopefully you could also transfer any remaining balance, like you were able to when GoRider cards were phased out (I think..). I don’t mind the $10 charge (for a new card, not a swapped one), as having a buffer for negative balances is sensible in a tag-on/tag-off system. What I don’t agree with is that it’s non-refundable. In London you have to pay a Ā£5 refundable deposit to get a new Oyster card. So if you are visiting, you can get a card and then hand it in when you leave (and get your Ā£5 back, less any negative balance). I don’t think many people do this, but it’s good to have the option.
Sane fare systems are a rare breed.
But why are 10-trips tickets being retained? Surely the discount should be applied to applied to all trips on HOP without requiring passengers to select the 10 tripper.
Where does it say 10-trips are being retained? Everything I’ve read says the paper ones will be phased out and no equivalent offered on AT HOP.
They only exist on Snapper-HOP/Snop as a way to stop kids spending their bus money at the dairy instead.
Says it here: http://www.myhop.co.nz/HOP-Fares/Pages/default.aspx
Sorry, should have included that. Perhaps it is out of date?
That link has information for when Snapper HOP was launched.
See here for the AT HOP launch information
http://www.myhop.co.nz is effectively the snop card at the moment.
Your unanswered question has been answered, and the answer is no. You have to buy the AT HOP card which cost 10dollars. I’m currently trying to find out if they will offer to swap out the card early, instead of next year. Not looking hopeful though.
@Logan, yeah, but what if you need to have both an AT HOP and a Snapper HOP until the Bus change
Will you be able to get a free AT HOP without handing over your Snapper HOP?
By the way I emailed the council about being part of the trial before the launch and they’ve replied by saying they are going to send me an invitation midway through September. So if anyone else is interested? send them an email š
Talk to Gravitas
I gather only rail and ferry trials at the moment? Would love to get on board the trials, but unfortunately most of my PT use is on non-NZ Bus buses. Any idea whether there will be bus trials? If so, when?
The order for the bus equipment was only placed last week, so it will probably be next year before they have enough installed to run a trial.
I’m very keen to take part in a trial. Who should I email?
I have a few questions for AT or someone in the know:
How do you buy the tickets they are only going to sell at ticket agents if you don’t start at one of the (3?) stations with an agency? Family passes are the most restricted
It says 10 pass tickets will remain valid until the stamped expiry date. I have bought 2 recently, neither with any dates on them. Does that mean they don’t expire?
Why are they starting to limit purchase of the 10 trip tickets before the new Hop cards are available?
Couldnt agree more. AT is trying to limit it before infrastructure is in place. They might have Vending machines in all stations, but places like Baldwin avenue etc..?
The reason why 10 trips are being eliminated now is that they don’t want to have to programme a whole set of machines for tickets that will only be issued for another few months.
The whole transition feels rushed and ill-considered – especially from a customer experience point of view.
I’d paraphrase the information on the maxx site and information leaflets being handed out at train stations as this:
1. We’re taking ticket purchase options away from you in early September. You’d better get used to standing in in a queue the rain on the platform, and you’ll need to be early if you want to catch the train. No running down the platform and paying on the train any more! Oh, and if you are unfortunate enough to live in Papakura then we won’t even regard the cash in your pocket as valid currency at that machine.
2. You’ll be able to buy some of the old tickets until the end of October, but you’ll have to go looking for a dairy somewhere away from the station – that also means you’d better hope these agents are still open at the hours you want to buy tickets (I know they are not open before 7am or after 5pm anywhere in Glen Eden for example). Or you could travel all the way to New Lynn, Newmarket or Britomart to get them. Handy.
3. You can use a our new HOP card (no not that HOP card, one with a different logo) from the end of October. You’ll need to stump up $10 to obtain the discount that you were previously given free of charge when you bought a 10-trip (and that fee will apply if you are unfortunate enough to lose the card, I’m pretty sure). And you’ll need to make sure you don’t trip over your HOP cards, because for a long time (we’re not sure how long) you’ll need the old HOP card for the bus, ‘cos we’re not really into them yet.
4. On top of that, you won’t be able to get a Day Rover, and we almost certainly MAY change other passes, but that’s so secret that we can’t tell you about that yet. What we can tell you is that lots of other passes will only be sold at New Lynn, Newmarket and Britomart. If you’re lucky enough to be a child we might still give you a monthly pass at the local dairy as well as at the main stations.
SHEESH! I really like to see the positive in lots of what AT is doing – and there is lots of good – but the focus on customer experience and communication really needs lots of work.
A lot of what is wrong with the comm’s is about the tone in which it is presented; this is at least easy to fix – send the patronising copywriter on a rehab course.
The strategic thinking is just all wrong though. I get that you would want to give people reasons to take up HOP, but the sequence here is all wrong – take away familiar ticketing options before you put the new system into place. There’s just no need for this – why the rush.
Can someone from AT please start thinking about all this from the customer’s experience? If they are it’s not coming over that way.
– End of rant
PS. I’ll be stocking up on 10-trips before the end of October. Not looking forward to the first few weeks of the HOP, will be keen to bypass the queues and hassles. KISS – paper is good until it all settles down.
Even AT don’t know how transition will work dude!
You will still be able to buy tickets on the train until AT HOP comes in, they are just trying to encourage you buy ticket before you board.
Why would I want to buy a ticket before I board, if I can still buy it on board?
Good point. I guess the idea is to test the machines properly and ease people into buying before boarding.
Not 10 Trips. AT are happy to sell the single tickets on the train, but not the time and money-saving ones.
The current plan to keep paper tickets and make them so inconvenient to purchase / use as TimR has alluded to, is unfortunate. To manage / mitigate any overall backlash against the use of HOP and the new ticket machines / gates, AT would be wise to implement RF tickets instead of the thermal paper ones, as soon as possible…and yes TimR as you and others have also pointed out, AT continue to be quite dreadful at customer communication on a number of fronts – most bewildering.
Wouldn’t RFID tickets come at a high printing cost though?
Questions, questions questions. Lots of those and not enough answers š
Then again what is new
Kind of but not really related … I had a problem where the bus wouldn’t let me tag off (incorrect route loaded into their system) and I was incorrectly charged a penalty – now I have to go to Britomart to receive my credit (even though I have NEVER been to Britomart in my life!!) – will the new AT HOP cards allow officials to put my credit onto my card electronically (given that they should be able to be topped up online etc) or will I still have to go to Britomart to tag it on a machine?! Very inefficient as it is and not worth my time to go to Britomart to receive my credit…
Craziness; but enjoy Britomart; it’s pretty cool, and a hint of an Auckland to come…..
I’m hoping that will be a key feature – if your bus doesn’t turn up you get a credit. Imagine that! Just like any other service orientated business…
It will be solved through action list. You will have to Tag-on and credit will be applied! Magic.
thanks for the info – hopefully you mean I can tag on, on a bus (not just at Britomart as it currently stands) to receive a credit – it’s nice to see there is hope for the improvement of the system for the users at any rate. Note that AT was so kind as to offer to post me a free NZ Bus pass (2 stages) to get to Britomart to receive my $1.44 credit….not sure of the efficiency of that system and whether I should just use the free 2 stage pass and forego the Britomart visit (as Britomart is one stage from my work but two stages from home – what about people who live further out and get unfairly penalised)!
cheers
OK sorry to harp on but I just re-read my email from AT and it says I get a free 2 ride NZ Bus pass for travel anywhere in Auckland – so I guess that means it is more than two stages – anyway, props to AT for that!! š
I have to say that it is my feeling, possibly from a lack of full information from AC/AT, that the launch has been stuffed up completely.
I agree Chris. They haven’t even launched it and they’ve already stuffed it up.
I’m hoping that AT might trawl through this thread and come up with some answers to a pile of unresolved questions – perhaps someone could gather up the questions into a post?
Ben Ross just posted a scanned copy of a smaller pamphlet than the one on-line, that is also being handed out at stations.
I’m sure some of you have gotten your own copy but I hadn’t, so:
http://voakl.net/2012/08/29/more-on-aucklands-new-integrated-ticketing/
AT HOP 2
Thanks Josh for your answers to a lot of the technical questions š
I know the policy is looking to be no, but are the ticket vending machines technically capable of selling day passes and family passes?
Only paper producta are single trips for different profilesadult,concession etc.. No return. No family.
My experiences. Auckland Transport Hop card pilot.
Tues 8 October.
Take 4pm ferry from Waiheke to Auckland, walk to Britomart with 7 mins to spare before my Western Line train leaves.
Ticket queue nearly out the front door and I canāt see a ticket machine so I decide to delay charging up my hop card and use my 10-trip ticket.
Get out at Kingsland and begin my ticket machine experience:
First worrying sign; the illustration showing me how to insert my Hop card appears to be a mirror image ā it is not possible for me to insert my card in the manner depicted.
Then I canāt find a slot to insert card into (ascertained after bending down an looking into the āinsert card here holeā), OK what next, ahh machine responds when card is within the hole, doesnāt need a slot.
I need both hands free to get my eftpos card out of my purse so have to remove card, screen goes blank. Try to leave card in hole, hole is sloped, card falls to ground.
Somehow clumsy old me manages to coordinate everything, selects $20 and when asked how to pay presses the eftpos logo.
Opps thatās not a button, just a logo. I need to hit the āuse bankcardā.
āInsert cardā I am told.
The illustration depicting which way to insert card bears absolutely no relationship to my BNZ eftpos card.
āRemove cardā Iām told.
Ok try again, ooops āremove cardā it says again. I thought Iād turned the card over but obviously not because Iām now told that the transaction has been cancelled.
Start all over again. But by now I am an experienced user and manage to do everything properly.
Success!
But then I look at my receipt, it says ātotal NZD4.50ā.
I get home and check my bank account, $20 has been deducted.
3/10 Mr Hop.
Yes I found the slot to place the card in a little odd but found it held the card in there ok. Other than that I found the top up process very easy.
I will get a post up in the next few days on my experiences using it.
So Sally, have you included all your comments in the survey which pilot users are being asked to fill out each day?
Anyone know what’s happening about the Snapper USB some of us purchased at the time the HOP cards came in – will we be able to top up at home using that USB? If not, do we get a free replacement USB?
I doubt it. Only HOP branded cards will be swapped over, and I expect nothing by Snapper will be supported on the new system. I have two Snapper cards at home that were originally picked up on a Wellington trip that I do not expect can be swapped or have their balance transferred. At least they’ll still be useful for Wellington trips. They’re the older kind where the balance doesn’t expire too (not available anymore IIRC).