Some pretty exciting news for Wellingtonians today – with an announcement that instead of refurbishing the rather old Ganz Mavang trains, Wellington will instead replace them with an extension of their current order for new Matangi trains:
Greater Wellington Regional Council (GWRC) and the NZ Transport Agency announced today they intend to replace rather than refurbish the existing Ganz Mavag trains to complete the region’s peak train requirements.
“When all 48 2-car new Matangi trains (or 96 cars) are in service later this year, at least a further 26 trains will still be needed for peak hour services,” GWRC Chair, Fran Wilde, said today. “In the immediate future the older Ganz Mavag trains are being used, but the ageing and increasingly unreliable fleet needs to be refurbished or replaced to ensure reliable services are provided as demand continues to increase.”
Last year, based on a comprehensive cost/benefit analysis of refurbishment versus replacement, GWRC decided in principle to refurbish the Ganz fleet subject to funding and final comparison costs. The NZ Transport Agency agreed to fund at least 50% of this refurbishment project.
“However, we have recently received a competitive offer from Hyundai Rotem, supplier of the Matangi, for up to 35 additional new trains (or 70 cars). This offer is less than half the cost estimated in 2011 and with more robust information on the maintenance cost of the Matangi and Ganz fleets, buying more Matangi units looks considerably more favourable than it did last year.
“Importantly our reviews and independent analysis show that buying more Matangi trains would have about the same impact on regional fares and rates as refurbishing the Ganz Mavag fleet because debt repayment would be spread over a longer period.
“The key issue is that if we refurbish the Ganz trains we still would have to purchase replacements for them at the end of their life in fifteen years’ time at whatever the price is in 2027,” Fran Wilde said.
“Buying more Matangi trains offers a rare opportunity to completely renew an entire fleet in one extended procurement process.
“The Council will be considering this at its September meeting and if approved we would then begin negotiations. The financial evaluations and economic modelling we have done as part of our due diligence so far show that it is a ‘no-brainer’ to pursue this option.
“We expect that during the 35 year life of the new trains there would be a $228m saving over the cost of refurbishing the Ganz fleet and replacing them in 15 years.”
Jenny Chetwynd, NZ Transport Agency’s Regional Director says the NZTA’s contribution of at least 50% of this investment in new trains reflects the strength of the proposal.
“These new trains will be a great investment that provides good long term value for money and will significantly improve state highway congestion issues as well as the reliability, capacity and quality of Wellington’s public transport services. This should help to encourage future passenger growth and help economic productivity throughout the region. This is a significant and worthwhile financial commitment which delivers on the NZTA’s investment priorities and the regional transport strategy.”
Cr Peter Glensor, Chair of the Regional Council’s Economic Wellbeing Committee, which oversees the council’s public transport activities, said that the replacement option offers two benefits: facilities on the trains and reliability.
“An all-Matangi fleet would mean that all of Wellington’s metropolitan trains would be modern, efficient, fully accessible, air-conditioned and reliable. We anticipate that more people would use the new trains which would help reduce peak congestion and transport-related pollution. Thus apart from the competitive price on the table – half of last year’s market estimate – an important issue is the performance and high quality passenger experience of the Matangi fleet, and the improving levels of punctuality,” Cr Glensor said.
“We are also pleased with the very positive feedback we are receiving from drivers and on-board crew as they become more familiar with the new Matangi trains.
“Having a single fleet also makes good economic sense: driver training would be simpler and more consistent; no heavy maintenance would be needed in the short term; warranties would be extended; spare parts and inventory holdings would be reduced; and we would not need to undertake further major rolling stock procurement for at least 30 years,” Cr Glensor said.
Crs Wilde and Glensor said that from the beginning they had explored the issue of the impact of this decision on Hutt Workshops.
“However, we have been informed by KiwiRail that the workshops have enough current and planned work for the existing workforce and are not reliant on the Ganz Mavag refurbishment work. All regular maintenance on the Matangi trains will also continue to be done locally.”
Ms Wilde says that if negotiations proceed, delivery of the first unit could be around the middle of 2014, with the entire fleet in service by mid 2016.
So by mid 2016 both Auckland and Wellington will pretty much have entirely brand new passenger rail fleets. That’s pretty cool.
I also think we need to come up with a proper name for Auckland’s new electric trains.
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That makes me feel old. I remember when the Ganz Mavags were introduced because I used to take them and their red predecessors to university. The English Electrics always felt gritty… If I recall correctly the brake linings gave off some sort of dust that made the trains gritty and the track area a sort of brownish colour. The Ganz Mavags seemed so modern and clean by comparrison.
I think the English Electrics had toilets onboard. They just vented their contents on to the track. Which is quite horrible, in retrospect.
It was hardly uncommon to vent toilet contents to the track (in some countries, the ‘toilet’ is really just a hole). NZ Rail’s old InterCity stock used to empty on to the track via a large diameter pipe. I recall they had a sign in the toilets requesting that they not be flushed while the train was stationary (and therefore, likely in a station). Being a good proto-scientist, 20 odd years a go, I was left wondering what might happen on a certain bridge north of Seddon, with the train track over the roadway. I had my younger brother flush (just water mind), while I was on the outdoor viewing platform to observe. Turns out, cars would be fine, but there would be some chance of misfortune for a pedestrian. Though a nor’west might alter the parameters against the cars.
Not much different from when stock trains used to go over.
Dumping toilet waste on to the track was done on railways throughout the world until very recently. But I have nevr heard that toilets were fitted to the English electrics. Where did you get this idea from?
No I don’t think they were. Suburban trains didn’t need them.
From riding them, years ago. I might be misremembering the train type, but if so there aren’t many things I would have confused them with. I’ve never taken a train intercity in NZ, so its either the English Electrics or the Ganz Mavags. If the later, they must have had toilets that were removed, and that seems unlikely.
I used to ride the red rattlers on the Melling line and they never had toilets to my memory, I think that they did have a luggage compartment which might have given you the idea
Back in the 1970’s 80’s at peak times there carriage trains that were recycled from the Wgtn – Auck overnight trains. These had toilets.
Good news.
The $30’000 question is this.
Wellington council recently sold an old English Electric on Trade Me. Will they also sell one of the Ganz Marvag units as well? I hope they do, it generated so much good publicity (and jolly good to read the questions and answers).
I see from their Q and A that they will be keeping the refurbished prototype.
Will they also sell one of the Ganz Marvag units as well?
There is interest in the remaining EE stock from someone in Ghana, ( for conversion to Loco pulled carriages) I suspect that the ganzs might also go that way too..
Reading between the lines it does appear one of the contributing factors for the extras Matangis was Kiwirail’s inability to nail down a price to refurb the Ganz Fleet, )- and the council not wanting to wear the risk of a cost blow out for a sets of units that would still not give them the same equipment level as the Matangis.
All in all I think it is a great decision, a total fleet of 83 matangis will be a huge positive for the wellington network ( I had envisaged the sighs of passengers on a cold morning seeing an refurbished ganz approaching when they had expected a new matangi for their ride to work)
This is going to be a contrarian comment, but do you think we have spent enough on Wellington public transport infrastructure yet?
Came across this article: http://buswatchnz.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/dom-post-dismisses-light-rail-in.html
How do you justify spending so much in Wellington when public transport options in much of the rest of the country totally stinks?
I can understand your sentiment but don’t agree. There aren’t enough of the Matangis to run normal services and the plan was always for some of the existing Ganz units to be used during the peak to maintain existing services. The previous years the Ganz were run down as there was simply not enough of them to allow for regular maintenance/servicing let alone upgrading them to a semi modern standard. Without upgrading things they would have simply ceased working over the coming years which means existing services would have had to be cut. I don’t think thats the kind of situation we should be aiming for and we should at least should maintain what exists.
As mentioned above it works out cheaper over a period of time to buy new trains rather than upgrade the existing ones.
The truth is for that commment, Christchurch (where I live) isn’t progressive enough to look ahead when it comes to public transport. The CCC is consulting on a transport plan that has all that nice stuff in it, but going on their track record, commitment is pretty hard to find.
In other words – Christchurch didn’t get any money because they didn’t ask for anything, like a busway or rapid transit system. We just don’t have anything equivalent to the Auckland and Wellngton transport networks. Rapid transit is going to be investigated, but I don’t think light rail will be the most sensible outcome from it.
You are talking about an established system (rail) and this is going to save money in the long term.
I might get some hate for saying this but my feeling for a while has been that our cities, with the exception of Wellington, are following the Auckland model of development, the only thing is they are doing it about 30 years later. The biggest culprits of this are Christchruch and Tauranga who have been pretty much begging for motorways to be built despite the immense impact they have had in AK. It’s funny that they follow Auckland so much as publicly so many of their despise Auckland yet are doing their darnedest to imatate us.
In about 30 years they will all wake up and have an apithany and realise they should have done something else sooner but by then it will be so expensive to change course it will make it almost impossible to reverse, again just like Auckland is doing right now.
won’t be 30 years…. look at the oil math
It sounds smart to use the old “everyone else is following Auckland” meme, however if tax revenue from the rest of NZ is being used to fund Wellingtons PT initiatives (and also Aucklands), then by definition there is less taxation revenue available to fund initiatives elsewhere.
I mean how much say does a Tauranga or a Dunedin get when it comes to receiving public transport funds from central government?
Makes sense to have a common train system across the network, as in Auckland with the different trains in use we have issues with who can drive what.
So a single type of train makes for a simple driver training and certification option.
My suggestion for a name for the Auckland trains: “Caffeinators” (or JAFAnators) depending where you stand.
The latter rather than the former is definitely more appropriate.
The other question is whether the power systen will be converted to 25kv AC from the 1500v DC. I understand the Matangi’s are built with 25kv AC engines but there is some sort of transformer that converts from the 1500v DC. While the Ganz’s where around they had to keep 1500v DC but with them gone there would be advantanges to convert the system to 25kv AC, the main one being that the main trunk and the Auckland system are both 25kv AC. This would allow joint orders between Auck & Wgtn EMU’s and in the long term the ability to electify the system from Auckland to Wgtn. There may also be servicing and purchasing benefits.
making the network all 25V KW is to be honest not economic, and ordering joint fleets is a pipe dream,
it would be simpler and cheaper to get some multi voltage locos if there ever a need to electrify the entire NIMT…
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1500V DC is fine for a suburban passenger network,
There are more things than just the Voltage differences between the Wellington Network that would prevent joint orders of Wellington and Auck Rolling stock
Off the top of my head,
Tunnel loading gauges in Wellington are dictated by the Johnsonville line with its single track tunnels, if you had a joint order this would mean Auckland would have access doors front and rear, and narrower cars.
The gradients of CRL in Auckland necessitates some fairly grunty hardware, meaning that you would be over specing most of the fleet for gradients they may never see.
Auckland and Wellington still have different platform heights- driven by other rolling stock restrictions,
I heard that the Matangi’s were built for 25V KW with a transformer to convert 1500 V DC to to AC. When the Ganz’s are with drawn, then electrify Waikanae to Palmerston North and Papakura to Hamilton so EMUs can operate Auckland to Hamilton and Wellington to Palmerston North.
Having a electrification from Wellington to Auckland would be good for freight. on the NIMT.
With regards to an all Matangi fleet, makes logical sense. Standardized driver trainings, spares, servicing and as Fran Wilde said, more time to pay off the extra funding.
I do agree with Greenwelly, due to the geographical nature of Auckland and Wellington, Auckland would need its own fleet, so does Wellington to meet local geographical requirements.
But for future fleet replacements, it would be easier to have one supplier building a ‘standardised’ EMU but modified to suit Auckland and Wellington operating requirements but have same running gear, electronics, etc.
The matangis, like most modern electric trains, have motors that run off around 1500V AC from an on board inverter that allows the train to efficiently control the power output of the motors by varying output voltage and frequency. Since the input voltage to the inverter needs to be about 1000-3000V DC, it makes sense to connect the inverters directly to the train’s pantograph for 1500V operation. In 25kV operation on modern EMUs, a transformer is used to convert the 25kV down to around 1500V AC which is then rectified to DC, which then goes on to power the inverters. To add 25kV AC capability to the matangis, all that would be needed is a transformer, rectifier and probably a new pantograph and modified high voltage equipment. Conversely, to add 1500V DC capabilities, it should only need the addition of a new pantograph, as well as changes to the high voltage switchgear.
Name suggestion: Horotiu class EMUs. They’ll be running through the guardian taniwha’s domain below central Auckland, binding the city and its hinterland together – why not acknowledge it with the name? Could match it with some great visual treatment of the carriages too…
Yes! Or even just Taniwha… ‘See you soon; I’ll catch a Taniwha….’
Horotiu? Isn’t that the freezing works just north of Hamilton? Perhaps entirely appropriate. lol
Wellington chose the Maori word for wind or breeze – how about we choose the Spanish words viento or brisa, or the Samoan words matagi or savili, or havilivili in Tongan. 🙂
Matt L
August 24, 2012 at 8:08 am · Reply
Christchruch and Tauranga have been pretty much begging for motorways to be built because of the percieved immense impact they have had in AK, ie it’s the reason that Auckland is now New Zealand’s most populous, wealthiest and fastest growing city. The fact that this is more likely to be the result of Jafas emulating Americas foreign policy (corporate raiding, cultural imperialism etc) in the name of “civilising the backwards locals” tends to get overlooked in favour of something flasher and less offensive. Aemricans seemed to be mystified by why the rest of the world doesn’t love them and are so ungrateful too. :0
While looking for that JH Kunstler line about the infrastructure of suburbia being the biggest misallocation of resources in the history of the world I found this beauty:
There are others too… the question for me is at what price or impact on the local and global economy do we need to for the news that things are going to change for it to sink in?
The longer we delay dealing with change the sharper the transition point will be. General NZ society, led by the do nothing government [wasting so much political capital on changing the ownership structure of some electricity companies], is in denial, we know comes next; shock, anger, and blame…. So it goes.
Was great when this blog was a discussion about public transport initiatives and you didn’t have to be a catastrophist to support PT initiatives.
Hey Mrv, you don’t have to be anything in particular- all views are welcome, but I guess if you can’t cope with seeing views that are different to your own it’s going to be hard for you on a blog which now has such a wide readership.
Talk about missing the point. What I am saying is PT can be justified on evidence (particularly from countries/cities that do it right) without using threats of future potential doom.
Using that type of argument turns alot of people off. What is worse, many of these things lead to open ridicule years later, eg. New Yorks great horse manure crisis.
MrV – would also be great that if one has a strong opinion, one wasn’t immediately asked to “tone it down” for fear of scaring the ones who don’t like to hear it. A government that is so massively unbalanced on transport spending creates a lot of blow-back. And deservedly, even if some might not agree with it.
A moderator has far more of a chance to state his opinion on a more regular basis than a lowly commentator does.
I’m just stating that the “woe is humanity” mentality doesn’t exactly help the issue of public transport policy. How about a little more optimism?
It seems quite ironic that local politicians many other cities in New Zealand seem prepared to abuse Auckland and Aucklanders for all it’s worth and then try to replicate it in their own city.
*in many other cities
Matangis built with 25KV transformers???? I don’t know where you heard that from.
“The cars have AC traction gear and convert the DC power supply to AC”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_FP_class_electric_multiple_unit
This would make sense as 25kw AC is becoming the standard for most rail systems so it is probably easier to design a traction system (and associated control systems) for 25kw AC and convert the power source.
Tauranga is scheduled to be NZs third largest city, yet has some of the worst urban planning in the country. The SmartGrowth plan seems to have been overriden by property speculators in favour of sprawling suburbia. Quite amusing(or sad) as most of the residents now are ex Aucklanders. Might be time to ask the local MP there about transport planning!
An absolutely insane amount of money has been spent on transport in Tauranga too. So many extremely overbuilt roads.
How does Wellington get 50% government funding for its new trains when Auckland gets a fully repayable loan?
NZTA is paying just over 50% of the repayments for our EMUs, so a pretty similar deal. It was the earlier Matangis that the govt paid 90% of for some arbitrary reason I’m unaware of.
Ta for clarifying.
Oh, and Sacha, you are certainly right – National WAS trying to stick us with the full bill, AND eat their cake too (i.e. keep owning the trains we would then have paid for 100%). In the end, after a few hard negotiations with Len, Mike and AT, government they backed away from that idea, and sanity prevailed.
I would doubt that the ‘grunty hardware’ required for Auckland would exceed the requirement for trains on the Johnsonville line which is a 1 in 36 incline and mentioned in the list off steepest gradients for adhesion in Wikipedia. Probably it would be the Wellington requirements for power that would be ‘overkill’ for Auckland.
The CRL will have sections as steep as 1 in 26 which is considerably steeper.
Actually, the 2010 business case has the first section at 1:32, and the rest at 1:28 steepness! See page 37
http://www.aucklandtransport.govt.nz/improving-transport/city-rail-link/Documents/crl-business-case-report.pdf
That’s still pretty steep, will be the steepest in NZ that’s for sure, also I believe that the hill up from Parnell to Newmarket is now at around 1 in 33 since the works to enable the new station there. Perhaps I am mixing up the 1 in 26 with the EMU design i.e. the EMUs are designed for 1 in 26 so that they won’t have problems getting up the CRL.
Maybe Tauranga should buy the old Auckland Trains when they are replaced…There are already a few lines there, add some double track and you could have the main areas covered with trains. Would take much for most of Tauranga to have a great Train network…just NZ loves to put everything into roads roads and more roads. Put in a good rail network then suddenly you don’t need all those roads when lots of people stop driving everywhere.
The Japanese Railways Toshiba EH500 class of Electric Locomotives run on 3ft 6in gauge and are duel voltage 1,500V DC and 25kv AC with a top speed on 110 kph and a power ouput of 4,000kw, compaired to the low 2,799kw output of a new DL diesel locomotive or 3,000kw output of a EF electric locomotive. And these locomotives can be puchased of the shelf from Toshiba
That is to easy for Kiwirail.
The problem is they are made in Japan not in China.
A good thought for possible replacements of the EF’s but they would have to be made in China.
Got keep the $7 billion plus FTA going with China