The Auckland Trains blog has an interesting post on the perception difference of buses and trains. In short, the argument is that people are more likely to choose catching the train over driving than they are to choose catching the bus over driving.
A number of complaints about buses, sent in to AKT over the years, are posted:
1. Buses are smelly outside and in
2. The seats are narrow and too close to people
3. I hate the way buses jerk about all the time when they stop in traffic
4. Standing is unpleasant when the bus is crowded
5. When the bus gets caught in road traffic it’s very slow and you’re often subjected to the same problems as motorists
6. Bus lanes are erratic like at Kingsland where you can be slowly crawling to the Bond St corner lights for up to 30 minutes along New North Rd because there is no bus lane in the village area
7. Buses have too many stops
8. I hate waiting at places like Symonds St where you have to have good eyesight and smart reflexes to wave down a bus when a lot of buses appear at once and it might be yours
9. The electronic sign boards are next to useless. I hate the way they say one is coming then it gets delayed or the scheduled bus vanishes
10. I hate having to press the buzzer when I am standing or not seated near one and have to reach over people.
11. I hate those seats where you face people eyeball to eyeball
12. The bus journey is so bumpy
13. Those fat woman. I had to squeeze next to one the other day and was almost pushed into the aisle
14. No space for kids – not family friendly
15. Can’t take shopping or big things
16. My bike doesn’t go on it. What happened to the plan for bus racks?
17. 5 buses come at once so the timetable is not ideal.
18. I hate the way a bus finally arrives and it’s an express that goes past and you don’t realise til it passes you and you get pissed off
19. The timetables are stupid. You wait 20 minutes and then 3 buses turn up.
20. I gave up after a bus driver went the wrong way
21. I can’t read in a bus especially at night
22. Some buses are difficult to see out the windows to see if your stop is coming up such as in a crowded bus when you are sitting and people are standing or at night or raining or if the window you have has an advertisement painted on it
23. Some bus drivers are rude
23. I don’t mind chatting to a person in the train but would never want to do so in a bus
An interesting question, in response to all these points, is whether the issue is actually with buses per se, or whether the issue is with the quality of Auckland’s bus system. Arguably, points 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23 are actually genuine complaints about the quality of Auckland’s bus system rather than reasons to dislike buses in general.
Unlike most public transport advocates, I try really hard not to be “pro-rail”, “pro-trams” or “pro-buses” to the expense of the other modes. In effect I think that all three types of land-based public transport very much have their place – depending on the characteristics of the corridor that they serve, the particular existing infrastructure that already exists and the urban effects of the particular technology chosen. Cost is also obviously a factor that we can’t ignore.
For a long time Auckland’s rail system was completely neglected and ended up being incredibly run down. At that time catching the bus was possibly more ‘attractive’ than catching the train – all other things being equal. That might explain why rail ticket prices are still lower than bus prices (I’ve never heard a definitive answer to that question, so one has to guess). But over the past 10 years we have, thankfully, focused a lot on improving the rail system – to the extent that by the time electrification comes online (whenever that might be) pretty much the whole system, aside from the corridors the tracks pass through, will be new.
Unfortunately, over the same last ten years the bus system has been largely ignored. This is evident in bus patronage data, which stagnated between 2002 and 2008, before finally picking up in the last couple of years:
I would argue that many of the problems people have with buses in Auckland are the result of us actually not doing buses very well at all. Points 5 and 6 from AKT’s post outline some obvious solutions – improve and extend bus lanes so that buses can travel quicker, and especially ensure that we have bus lanes at critical chokepoints like the corner of Bond Street and New North Road in Kingsland. Point 7 notes, quite correctly, that bus stop are generally located far too close together in Auckland, further slowing down services – probably a hint to Auckland Transport that they should focus on eliminating unnecessarily close bus stops. Other complaints about timetables, complex routes, poor drivers and so forth are also the result of a poor bus system, rather than buses being inferior per se.
One interesting fundamental difference between buses and trains is the impact on road traffic. Obviously, if one improves the bus system through having more bus lanes, greater bus priority at critical intersections and so forth, then there will be more of an impact on reducing roading capacity for general traffic than would be the case if you just accommodated those people on an underground railway system. Of course one needs to weigh that up against the significantly greater cost of an underground railway line – this being one particularly interesting consideration in the CBD Rail Tunnel business case review. It must be difficult for anti-public transport proponents to choose between these two outcomes – either spend a lot of money on underground rail or put up with losing a lot of roadspace to bus lanes. The NZ Herald’s various editorials criticising rail have never really considered that outcome.
Ultimately, I think we need to improve both our bus system and our rail system. Bus improvements have the big advantage of being relatively cheap and quick to implement, but can often only go so far – before they really start to impact on the quality of our cities (not to mention on general traffic capacity, but I’m not particularly concerned about that). What we really need to do is get our bus and rail system working together to create an efficient and effective public transport system – integrated ticketing will be critical to achieving that, as will weaning people off their hatred of transfers. A good quality bus system needn’t be as rubbish as what the people complaining to AKT suggest Auckland’s is like – we can have a much better bus system, but (perhaps contrary to what the NZ Herald thinks) that doesn’t mean we won’t need critical rail projects.
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The Melbourne Urbanist had something similar on this. The numbers speak for themselves: patronage on buses in Auckland, by your graph, is six times higher than rail patronage.
So how can it be argued that one vehicle is better than the other?
That’s not because of some inherent “magical” property of the vehicle used, it is because the train system has been allowed to become so irrelevant to urban life, old and so on, that hardly anyone uses it.
Both need to be fixed up. Public transport is a system; one needs to take a holistic view.
Rail is also less flexible than buses. If there’s a road, it’s highly likely that a bus can use it. The converse is not true of trains, which in a city like Auckland where rail hasn’t expanded to keep up with growth means that for huge swathes of the population there is no choice but buses.
I think the focus should really be Rail PLUS Bus. I have, by co-incidnce, had a post looking at how Toronto manages to get buses PLUS trains working together as a unified whole.
The idea should be to combine the strengths of both modes.
If you are going to argue about service characteristics, CAR has the best service characteristics of all modes.
So that throws a spanner into the works 🙂
23 is a bit bizarre quite frankly. I see no obvious difference between the people on the train or bus, or my desire to converse
1. Buses are smelly outside and in (more to do with cleanliness. You can get smelly trains too)
2. The seats are narrow and too close to people (you can remove seats- this frees up space).
3. I hate the way buses jerk about all the time when they stop in traffic- (maybe, but then again it might be the road due to potholes. Buses on the Brisbane busway (built to LRT gradients and curves) are rather smooth. Trains crossing points can shake the whole carriage)
4. Standing is unpleasant when the bus is crowded (this is also true on trains)
5. When the bus gets caught in road traffic it’s very slow and you’re often subjected to the same problems as motorists (more to do with allocating Class A or Class B Right of Way (ROW)).
6. Bus lanes are erratic like at Kingsland where you can be slowly crawling to the Bond St corner lights for up to 30 minutes along New North Rd because there is no bus lane in the village area (?)
7. Buses have too many stops (remove them- not inherently a bus issue. Some train lines in Brisbane have too many stops)
8. I hate waiting at places like Symonds St where you have to have good eyesight and smart reflexes to wave down a bus when a lot of buses appear at once and it might be yours (Put up next bus signs and displays)
9. The electronic sign boards are next to useless. I hate the way they say one is coming then it gets delayed or the scheduled bus vanishes (GPS tracking?)
10. I hate having to press the buzzer when I am standing or not seated near one and have to reach over people. (change the design of the bus)
11. I hate those seats where you face people eyeball to eyeball (more to do with seatings. Brisbane trains also have this type of seating)
12. The bus journey is so bumpy (fix the road, Class A or Class B ROW)
13. Those fat woman. I had to squeeze next to one the other day and was almost pushed into the aisle (could also happen on a train)
14. No space for kids – not family friendly (?)
15. Can’t take shopping or big things (probably true of all PT)
16. My bike doesn’t go on it. What happened to the plan for bus racks? (Bikes can be carried on both trains and buses, but probably best to simply put bike racks at bus stops)
17. 5 buses come at once so the timetable is not ideal. (Class A and Class B ROW, route supervision)
18. I hate the way a bus finally arrives and it’s an express that goes past and you don’t realise til it passes you and you get pissed off (next bus signs, Apps for iPhones, SMS tracker systems)
19. The timetables are stupid. You wait 20 minutes and then 3 buses turn up. (Traffic light priority, ROW Class A and ROW Class B)
20. I gave up after a bus driver went the wrong way (this doesn’t happen on trains)
21. I can’t read in a bus especially at night (probably inherent to bus)
22. Some buses are difficult to see out the windows to see if your stop is coming up such as in a crowded bus when you are sitting and people are standing or at night or raining or if the window you have has an advertisement painted on it (Toronto buses have next stop being approached information flashed up inside the bus)
23. Some bus drivers are rude (Smart Card and off-board fare payment)
23. I don’t mind chatting to a person in the train but would never want to do so in a bus. (?)
@Brisurbane, my point below (19 April) should be counted as a reply to this one, perhaps.
at minimum buses should have electronic signs inside indicating the next stop (and every stop should have a name) but really recorded anouncements of stops shpould also be a basic part of the service. in Tokyo all buses have this and the driver just presses a button on his contol panel to move the display and anouncment to the next one in the route sequence. tranfers of course should be indicated too.
@ BrisUrbane
WRT number twenty, it has been known to happen with trains (in Wellington anyway). Most recent occurance I’m aware down that way was in Jan 2010 when a Paraparaumu service ended up going to the Hutt – combination of the wrong route being set & the driver accepting it (rather than stopping and querying it over the radio).
I’m distressed that no-one has pointed out that “fat-phobic” attitudes are something that need to be stamped out. (#13)
What needs to be stamped out is our growing obesity problem, just sitting back and accepting people so large they spill out across two seats is not doing anything to help that.
Uh-huh. How will you get around to “not accepting people so large”? Exclude them from PT so they have to use their cars to get around? No matter what your career as a schoolyard bully might have taught you, shame, ridicule and social exclusion are NOT effective ways of dealing with obesity.
I know you will hate me for saying that, Doloras, but shaming people is actually a VERY effective behaviour-modification tool. Too simple a solution for obesity, admittedly.
However, I wish, for example, that there was massive social stigma attached to red-light running and speeding. If these types of people had trouble being invited to parties, or had people tell them off publicly for being the self-righteous, careless-with-YOUR-life pricks they are, those behaviours would drop very quickly.
Instead, we get people moaning about “rvenue gathering” police, and half the room nods in appreciation. The poor downtrodden bastard. Just wanted to get to work, and there these bastards lay in wait for him and trapped him! Of course we have bad driving behaviour here in NZ, compared to say, Scandinavia. We celebrate it!
Way to completely miss the point. I never said anything about stopping these people from using PT or excluding them from society, I’m not even saying obese people should be charged extra for PT. My issue was the PC line you throw out there of just accepting everyone as they are and that saying just because someone is so large they flow over on to someone elses seat that we should all ignore it and pretend like it isn’t a problem. We have continued to ignore the problem and be more and more PC about these kinds of things and it is obviously hasn’t done anything to solve the problem and that problem is having an increasing impact on all of us through things like increase costs to the health system.
As for the schoolyard bully comment, hardly, but I guess it is ok for you to throw insults out there if someone says something you don’t like.
I think many of these apply to rail. I would prefer rail if I had the choice but we need to promote both modes because they both have their important uses.
Fat phobic? I pay for a seat on a bus and someone next to me is taking up theirs and half of mine as well? Damn right I’d be annoyed, same if I were on a plane. Unless they paid for two seats, then thats fine.
no you don’t. you pay to get on the bus and go a certain distance. the fare does not guaratee you a seat.
Fair enough. I’ll just stick my briefcase on the seat next to me and not let anyone sit on it.
A propos of Point #1, it isn’t a cleanliness issue as Brisurbane thought. What it really means is that Auckland buses have huge emissions problems compared to Australian, American and Canadian fleets, including internal hazy sick-making crank-case fumes. Basically this is because nobody, I suspect, in Auckland Transport has actual expertise in the mechanical side of buses any more, and the operators are a bit slack in their maintenance and specifications because they can get away with it. Officially, great faith is placed in new Euro specifications (Euro III for existing buses, Euro V for new ones), but this doesn’t actually control “engine transients,” meaning that the bus will still put out black smoke at the bus stop and going up hills, especially if the driver is a foot-flat-to-the-floor type. I’ve seen Euro V’s do this, let alone older buses. Maintenance of these systems is also critical. Most of these problems could be controlled if Auckland Transport was prepared to get a bit tougher and/or to actually invest in helping the operators to do retrofits with Diesel Particulate Filters, crankcase retrofit filters (e.g. Donaldson Spiracle), gas conversions (e.g. Dieselgas) and so on.
Auckland buses are frequently very damp inside, particularly on wet afternoons. Not sure what you can do about it, but when it’s bouncing around and jerking, it’s not pleasant at all.
Large passengers: has more to do with the range of seats available on a train, where you don’t notice it so much. More room means you don’t feel cramped.
Talking to people isn’t a bizarre observation. Because buses really are such a second class form of transport in NZ, you don’t get the middle classes on the bus, and you don’t often start a conversation with someone you’re not socially comfortable with. Rail doesn’t have that social divide, for a whole bunch of reasons.
There’s more room for shopping and large items on trains.
Having to pay attention to where the stop is (rather than simply waiting for it to come up, as on a train) is demanding. You have to be keeping more of an eye out – literally.
And people who seek to dismiss all of this can. But they’ll be putting people through unpleasant experiences (yes, I know that an enjoyable society isn’t important) and causing them to get back into their cars or drive past bus stops on their way to the train.
The Brisbane LRT is the most enjoyable bus experience I’ve ever had. It has new air-conditioned buses, university students filling them, expensive railway-like roads with limited stops and full separation. I haven’t yet been on the Northern Busway, but they appear similar in experience. But this is not most Aucklander’s experience of buses. This needs to change.
I have been taking a bus and train every day recently. There is no difference between the type of people, students and suits etc on both. There is nothing second class about the buses In my experience, it is CBD workers who take them who are more likely to be professionals.
This hasn’t been historically true, and it isn’t true in all parts of Auckland. Class associations diminish quickly when reliable high quality services exist – witness the Northern Express.
All of which is to remind us that a high quality service is a result of more than just timetables.
Most of these issues are not endemic to buses in general, but a result of lazy operators and slack regulation of contracts. In many ways buses can be improved to give them more of the positive characteristics of light and heavy rail. Where a high class service is provided commuters will flock to it, as the Northern Express has shown.
On the other hand there is something about rail that makes it easier to attract more people onto PT, so the above is not a reason to get rid of trains.