Hidden among the vast number of ‘roads-mad’ documents that form the review of options for a future harbour crossing is one document that provides us with more of an insight into North Shore rail that we’ve probably ever seen before. In this post I will look at the issue of when might we need to introduce a North Shore railway line, while in a future post I will consider the matter of what form that rail link might take (ie. whether it should simply go up the busway or whether it should take a different alignment).

The document, prepared by Parsons Brinkerhoff, takes a good look at how public transport works between the North Shore and the city, both now and into the future. It assesses the busway capacity, parts of the busway route that will need upgrading in the nearer future, as well as giving us some clues about when the busway will no longer be sufficient for carrying the number of required people between the North Shore and the city.

If we start with that issue – busway capacity – the report notes that while the busway itself has a very high capacity for dealing with buses, certain parts of the route have a much lower capacity which can cause problems. This is outlined quite nicely in the diagram below:
As you can see, the real capacity constraint is at Fanshawe Street (in actual fact it’s probably on Sturdee Street and around where the Northern Express starts and stops its run but we’ll leave that issue aside for the moment). Unless we start sending more buses off the motorway at Cook Street (which could be an option once the Victoria Park Tunnel is completed) we are actually going to reach bus capacity along Fanshawe Street in the reasonably near future.

While there are some options for increasing the bus capacity of Fanshawe Street (although they’re pretty ugly like grade separating intersections with Beaumont and/or Halsey streets) or sending more buses via Cook Street, the main point to make is that ultimately I don’t think it will be the absolute capacity of the busway (in the form it has between Constellation and Akoranga stations) itself that determines the real ‘limit’ to the system: it will be what happens in the city centre. The report suggests a number of measures that could be taken around 2020 to increase the capacity of the city to take buses – these being:
With these measures, the report suggests that the busway could cope with projected demand right through to 2040 – much the same conclusion that the RLTS made.

However, this requires a pretty massive number of buses to travel into the Auckland city centre from the harbour bridge – and there are some interesting questions to ponder about that issue in terms of the effects of all those buses on the quality of the city centre. This is outlined further below:
So shifting people through a city centre in buses is certainly preferable to shifting them in cars (cars require much more roadspace and parking space), but there certainly seems a point where buses started contributing to, rather than alleviating, urban blight in the city centre: particularly if we’re interested in creating a world-class pedestrian focused city centre.

The report looks at this issue, in terms of analysing the question of at what level do buses start to become a problem: in terms of congestion, a reduction in service quality and, inevitably, effects on urban quality. The diagram below shows the levels at which (in buses per hour) things can start to get problematic: The current situation in Auckland generally works OK for arterials that have bus lanes (although personally I think the Albert Street bus lanes leave a lot to be desired in terms of their continuity): Even with the CBD Rail Tunnel in place by 2041, things start to get quite problematic on a number of bus corridors: Without the tunnel things are far far worse:
Hmmm… these maps are actually quite useful in proving the point that a surface bus option really isn’t a viable option, but that’s slightly besides the point in terms of this post.

Even if we’re a bit optimistic and assume the CBD Rail Tunnel will be in place by 2021, as planned by Auckland Council, a lot of the bus lanes will still start to experience problems in the relatively near future:
Fanshawe and Albert Streets are main thoroughfares for buses travelling to and from the North Shore. While Some of the problems can probably be fixed through changing bus routes (sending more buses via Cook Street exit or along Wellesley Street instead of up and down Albert Street), it seems fairly clear that the city centre does not have a limitless ability to cope with buses from the North Shore.

It is this issue: whether the city centre can handle all these buses without being ruined, that I think will ultimately determine the timing of a North Shore railway link. Furthermore, what might also prompt such a rail connection would be timing with a second road crossing. If it can be shown that a rail connection would alleviate the need for another road crossing (in a capacity sense), and that a rail connection was cheaper, it would seem like a logical thing to do in order to avoid having to spend $4-6 billion on another roading link.

I’ll look at the details of where a North Shore railway line might go in a future post.

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45 comments

  1. I’ve always thought that the Mayor’s talk of North Shore rail detracts from the short-medium term goals, like the CBD loop and the airport link. To the anti PT/freeze rates brigade, it just looks like rail (eg cost) overkill.

    He would have been better championing the stunning success of the Busway, and proposing it to be replicated in SE Auckland.

    There are plenty of people of who are not anti PT but question the cost of rail, preferring to push the benefits of improved bus systems. Leaving North Shore rail off the agenda in favour of a similar busway in a PT-starved area of the city would have made his transport vision a lot more balanced.

    The next step for the north shore should be extending the expressway north, increasing bus frequencies and getting dedicated lines on the Bridge into the CBD. Not rail.

  2. There have already been plenty of comments about the difficulty of using the Northern Busway during peak hours, but as a very infrequent user I can testity that it is impossible to use outside the peak. I travelled from Warkworth by car (no alternative) in the middle of the day (ironically to attend a meeting of ACC Transport committee) and thought that I would leve my car at Albany Station and catch the bus. No chance. The parks were all full and there were two ladies from Auckland Council merrily ticketing any car that was not parked exactly within the lines – A fine way to attract customers. They told me that I might find a park at Constellation, so I tried that. No joy. There is no parking at Sunnynook or Smales Farm, so we arrived there to find that the maximum parking period is 4 hours. Needles to say, I drove into the CBD.

    My point is, that it doesn’t really matter which form Public Transport takes, bus or train, as long as it is user friendly. The current “park and ride” arrangements aren’t at all and I heard recently that the propsed Silverdale facility has already had the number of car parks reduced from 400 to 200 before the project gets underway. How short-sighted is that? By all means extend the services further north, but make sure the facilities are up to standard first.

  3. KLK, it’s about the lead in time for these projects, but also about showing that the planning is for the whole city not just some parts. And seriously how cool and transformed AK would be if you could ride direct from Albany to the Airport, or Manukau City to Takapuna on a fast electric train without ever having to consider congestion or parking?

    But on your post, admin, those descriptions of the clogging unpleasantness of buses on our roads and city streets reminds of why I am always puzzled by the antipathy for rail by those who love their cars and driving…. the result of their denigration of rail are the roads ahead of them full of lumbering diesel belching dinosaurs full people they don’t to even like to look at…. Crazy, wouldn’t it be better to get the ‘losers’ out of their way and nicely off to the side…. but then what if the trains actually worked well and those people were traveling faster than the German SUV drivers? Well that wouldn’t do would it? So perhaps that’s it- no public money should ever go to a mode that they don’t see them selves using…. the usual selfishness at work, even if it’s not really in their interest.

  4. As has been mentioned on this blog many times, we’ve got to squeeze every drop out of the current Busway. There’s a definite need for the increased capacity of rail in future, but for now there’s enough issues with the current Busway to iron out. Faster boarding, more bus stops along Fanshawe Street, articulated buses, diverting buses to Cook Street – will all help free up enough bus capacity for the next decade or two. We need the extra park and rides further north to free up the parking spaces at Albany/Constellation. I would love to see some TOD development around the stations, but am not holding my breath.

    Just as an aside, on the issue of faster boarding issue at the Britomart end – the guy that stands on the pavement by the back door has been more proactive recently – he’s actually been going up and down the queues of waiting passengers before the bus has arrived checking tickets rather than just standing and waiting for the bus and then letting people on. Made boarding the bus FAR quicker when the bus arrived – filled in a couple of minutes. We can already see the potential benefits of the “fare paid zone” proposed a few posts back on this blog – the bloke with the machine is just a low-tech version of it.

  5. Speaking from a person using the Brisbane busways: I think busways should be considered for conversion when (whichever comes first):

    1. The terminal capacity of the inner city to take buses reaches saturation (bus stations in tunnels can expand this a little) <—– "Physical limit"
    2. It becomes FINANCIALLY more sensible to run a train with 1 driver per 1000 passengers rather than say 15 buses with 16 drivers <—– "Financial limit"

    This may sound like a silly thing to say- but if you are going to replace a busway with rail, it should only be done so if the capacity is increased by the conversion.
    There have been ideas for light rail on the Brisbane busway, but I don’t think Light Rail will have the capacity on our busway. It might only afford a marginal increase.
    The Brisbane South East Busway needs to go straight to metro. Just because a busway has been designed to be rail-convertible
    does not automatically mean that light rail/metro/commuter rail is the best option. The options should be explored.

    Capacity is related to the class of right of way. So a bus in mixed traffic will hit maximum capacity much sooner in Class A right of way (ROW);
    in Class B ROW the maximum is probably somewhere around 180 buses/hour so around 10 000 pphd (Cultural Centre Busway, Brisbane has a bus roughly every 24 seconds in peak hour),
    and in Class C, not 100% sure but maybe you are looking at perhaps a maximum capacity around 15 000 – 20 000 pphd???.

    Some things to think about might be:

    WHEN are you going to perform the conversion (what trigger point, which year?)
    HOW are you going to perform the conversion? Do you have to shut down the entire busway?
    Can you do it in sections? Does the entire busway need conversion or only some of it? Where are the buses going to be re-routed?

    There needs to be some kind of PLAN pre-conversion that spells out these things.
    In my opinion it is not satisfactory enough to just say “the busway is rail convertible”.

    I think the CBD loop is probably the most important, and then the Airport rail and then the busway conversion.
    I think there is still quite a lot to go for the North Shore busway. The Ottawa busways (Canada) are reported to have capacity of around 10 000 pphd (Ottawa) and Brisbane (somewhere around 18 000 pphd) in peak hour.

    The Perth experience, where the Mandurah rail line went down a freeway which previously contained a busway, saw patronage zoom upwards after the busway/bus lanes were replaces with rail; I’m guessing this might have come
    from the re-organisation allowing higher bus feeder frequency (haven’t confirmed this) and also the higher speed that the trains go at, and greater comfort (I would expect one to have a sore bottom travelling 70km on a bus).

    1. I think the particularly interesting thing to look at would be operating costs. At what point does it actually become cheaper to convert to rail and reduce your operating costs enormously (particularly in a future with much higher diesel prices) compared to running a million buses in and out of the city each day.

      Sure, the capital cost is big – but for public transport infrastructure it is often operating costs that are more expensive in the long run. It would be interesting to see some sums on that. I understand it’s the primary reason why Ottawa’s upgrading its BRT system to rail.

      1. With a metro system, the South East Busway’s capacity could be doubled from 20 000 pphd to 40 000 pphd.
        About 400+ buses per hour, each with their own driver, would no longer need to come into the CBD.

        If automated trains are used, high frequency service can be put on (say, every 5-7.5 minutes or so?) all
        day and all night and all weekend. I’m not aware of any automatic buses (except maybe PRT) in operation yet.

        Unfortunately I don’t have numbers, other than to say the Ottawa busway light rail conversion website states
        that they would save $100 million dollars per year, every year from conversion. The thing about the Ottawa conversion is that
        they will retain the busway in the outer section, so it is not going to all happen at once. It’s an incremental replacement.

        I half think that Ottawa should be converting to metro or light metro rather than light rail.

  6. * correction:

    Capacity is related to the class of right of way. So a bus in mixed traffic will hit maximum capacity much sooner in Class C right of way (ROW);
    in Class B ROW the maximum is probably somewhere around 180 buses/hour so around 10 000 pphd (Cultural Centre Busway, Brisbane has a bus roughly every 24 seconds in peak hour),
    and in Class A, not 100% sure but maybe you are looking at perhaps a maximum capacity around 15 000 – 20 000 pphd???.

    I am not having a good afternoon am I? Passing lanes at stations also help capacity.

  7. Putting aside the number of buses issue, the real battle is going to be the cost. If it is going to cost an extra $1.6b just to get a rail tunnel across the harbour before you even consider the costs putting rail through to Albany it is going to be hard to get buy in from many people. One option that the NZTA doesn’t seem to have considered is using a slightly larger tunnel (it wouldn’t need to be that much larger) and putting rail in the same tunnel underneath the road deck. That would mean only two tunnels are needed, one for each direction, and if the tunnels are already there that is half the battle won. Once the city is then ready to upgrade the busway it is just a case of going back to the space in the tunnel and laying tracks when needed 🙂

  8. You could have a bus tunnel first (Brisbane has many bus tunnels, we use fume exhaust methods and cleaner buses to get rid of the exhaust pollutants)
    and then replace it with rail.

      1. And, and let’s not forget this, trains run on renewable and available [in NZ] electricity, not imported, expensive, carbon releasing, polluting diesel…. this is way more important than currently gets any play in this country right now.

        1. It is important not to confuse method of propulsion with mode. It is possible to have trains run on electricity or diesel. It is possible to run bus on diesel or electricity. Are your freight trains going to be electrified or run on diesel too?

          Your trains run on diesel. Wellington has buses that run off electricity. I have seen video clips of trams running on diesel. I have seen videos of buses running of electricity with no overhead wires.

        2. Auckland is electrifying the network as we speak, and that electricity will come from 70% renewable sources like all of New Zealand’s electricity. The main freight corridor on the North Island Main Trunk has been electrified since the 90s. It would be a gargantuan undertaking to electrify Aucklands buses in a similar way, and I will note that Wellingtons trolley buses are on a fairly limited area, the longer routes are all diesel.

          I think Patrick has a good point regarding imported fuels especially. Sure it is possible to have diesel trams and electric buses and what not, but to be realistic (and economical) for the Auckland context trains mean local clean electricity and buses mean imported fossil fuels.

      2. Yes, but ANY tunnel is expensive. The extra cost would only be rather small. The Brisbane busway is designed to Light Rail standards anyway so the argument is redundant.

        1. Bris yes, yes, in theory; in practice the upgrade to electricity for buses would be the first bit of the budget cut, but anyway even if you ran electric buses in a tunnel the cost of then spreading that infrastructure out over the rest of the city so those buses can keep going is prohibitive. And to only do a part of the city would downgrade the one advantage buses have over trains, their flexibility; you know they don’t need tracks. Anyway bus tunnels are more expensive in AK’s case and the buses at the above quantities are horrible for the quality of life once they emerge on to the city streets. Much of the push for buses is from business owner lobby groups working for their members, and road only anti-PTers who see advocating buses is a way to keep all the money for roads while appearing to be arguing for ‘balance’.

          So as Nick says, and I appreciate the need to be open minded about mode [we’ve all read Mees], in Auckland it is electric trains vs diesel buses.

          Maybe one day there will be real electric buses, but then AK operators won’t buy them.

  9. Does anyone know what type of tunnel has been costed? Is an immersed tube tunnel possible a la Sydney? That would be cheaper than a bored tunnel one would have thought.

  10. Another way to get rail over the shore is either bridge options B2 or B4 (Road/Rail). According to the “Rail Longitudinal Section drawings” the southern rail section is 3.5% grade (no problem for new EMUs) but 5% on the north. However modification to the northern approaches could also get this down by extending the elevated rail section through to Onewa Rd.
    This way NZTA pays the full cost of the rail crossing, by way of environmental mitigation. Noise and pollution are the two environmental problems the EPA can address – going by the proceedings at the Waterview enquiry, possibly not the loss of view.

  11. Zeus, I think those options are sort of straw men, there to make it look like NZTA are even handed. There is no chance that they would even begin to fund the rail part, already we can see the tactics: NZTA will fund only the cheapest and lowest grade road crossing [needed or not] forcing us to live with a hideous climbing interchange at the city end. And a lot of law suits from St Marys Bay QCs. As we have seen in Vic Park for example, and Waterview, NZTA considers anything other than moving metal someone else’s problem to fund. Even if that problem is having air to breath.

    Funny I don’t mind the prospect of two bridges next to each other- but only if one of them isn’t that clumsy piece of junk already there. Hmmm. Bit of a problem that, because despite what some say the current bridge is going to be with us for many decades yet.

    Good point by Rudman this morning that the timing of this report was clearly chosen to gazump the City Spatial Plan. Determined to keep up the ‘there is no money’ for rail or real PT because we’re spending it all on this. Time is on our side however…. just got to try to slow down this and other crazy ‘Business As Usual’ NZTA, MoT mega-road projects.

    1. Patrick,I agree with your comments but factor in a change in govt (2014) and a change in NZTA policy from its new masters. It only requires a cabinet instruction to apply their statutory obligations to get best value – rather than the current instruction to spend everything on roads. A value based approach changes everything – but it also means bridges not tunnels – unless they can get the tunnel cost down considerably (new tunnel technologies may mean they get into pole position, but until then a bridge is best value). NZTA should be forced to follow best policy rather than the grey ‘do as I say approach’ we see from SJ. Funny that RONs haven’t been reviewed by the Auditor General. Value not political whim.

      I also think the options for St Marys Bay QCs are limited under the RMA changes – a greater risk is the future finance minister/treasurer currently living in St Marys Bay. The EPA is probably the real dark horse. If they don’t intervene in working class Waterview how can they intervene in affluent St Marys ?

      Haven’t read Rudman (not online yet) but the report was written in November & due for release this month – but no doubt it was timed for maximum impact.

      1. In the part of Rudmans piece today that Patrick is refering to, the NZTA had booked in with journalists to release the report on Thursday via a press breifing however they they/the government then released it on Tuesday unexpectedily without giving the press briefing instead. The government of course had a press release ready and waiting saying how expensive it was and implying that it was more important than other projects like the CBD tunnel

      2. Zeus – What would a change in Govt in 2014 do?

        As far as I can recall, Labour have not offered any support for “their” mayor and his transport vision whatsoever. Nothing that suggests a defining difference between them and National regarding Auckland’s future. Nothing at all.

        Given that this would be a free hit for them (and they need all of those considering the poll figures)why aren’t they yelling from the rooftops that the agree with the mayor and the Auckland electorate, and will make the CBD rail line the first thing to be ticked off should they regain power?

        Maybe they don’t want to pay for it either?

        1. Given the stick Goff got for his tax-free threshold policy, I’m not surprised Labour haven’t come out in support of this one in the absence of costing models. Plus, of course, they may well be waiting for the detailed BCR review to be completed to give the ammunition to use against Joyce and his intransigence.

          I’m hoping that Jones will be more use as Transport spokesman than the non-entity he’s replacing, because Labour could wipe the floor with Joyce if they broke out some competence in the portfolio. The evidence is there, it just needs to be utilised. Surprised the Greens haven’t been too flash, though.

        2. The thing is, they are not even using the “National want to ignore Auckland’s needs and control it for their mates” response you would expect to the Government’s spatial plan. Nothing.

        3. More worrying is Cam’s view that Labour are as in the pocket of the Road Forum as the Nats…. ie unwilling to risk losing their donations…. I dunno I’m fairy immune to conspiracy theories but I do find Labour’s inaction on this debate baffling, if not inexcusable. It is a proven vote winner, and not just in AK, look what happened in Hamilton and Welly too at the local elections. There’s easy hits on both Hide and the Nats for it shows them to be completely undemocratic and who are not pro local and cut the red tape as they pretend. Just big old fashioned Muldoon style central government bullies who would be better suited to running a soviet era Polish shipyard.

          What did Jones say to Joyce after he was challenged to come out in support of his people in Northland by getting in behind Puford and the great things it will do for them? Did he point out how crap that spending is for any kind of return? Did he offer his own plan of investment in the railline and safety improvements on the existing road, and how the returns on that plan would be so much high for much less spend? Not that I’ve heard. Is is heart or head anywhere near this….?

          Why are Labour silent? Do some opposing why don’t you- plenty of ammo on this site for you. Anyone out there from the party?

        4. Labour are in the pocket of the RTF? Really? Even after their “stunt” with RUC in 2008 where they raised it with three days’ notice to stop the RTF members from pre-buying millions of kilometres as happened with the previous increase? Sorry, not buying that one in the slightest.

        5. Matt the RTF gave funds to both Labour and National at the last election, they also gave funds to prospective MPs from both parties. The reason they do this is so that whoever gets in power will do stuff for them.

        6. Matt L, yes, I know, and they gave donations to both parties in 2005, too. Labour still stiffed the trucking industry when it became necessary (and my the outrage from the “user pays” crowd was deliciously ironic!), money or no money. So I’m a very long way from any kind of convinced that Labour are deep in the RTF’s pocket and that’s why they’re not attacking Joyce.

    2. Patrick, I have an email from Shane Jones just a few days ago where he says that despite being a Northland man, he and his Labour colleagues will be challenging Joyce on his intransigence on Puford and will be looking at alternatives, such as SH1 upgrades and by-passes for Warkworth and Wellsford. He also comes out strongly in favour of the Auckland CBD rail link. I know from a very good source that Labour are planning to scrap Puford when they are returned to power. The problem really is that labour don’t want to show their hand too soon. Difficult to fathom this really, as they could seriously damage National on the North Shore if they came out now in full support of Len Brown’s plans. With ACT disintegrating fast, they would only need a few Auckland seats to swing and …Hey Presto!

      1. One huge advantage that Key has given to Labour by announcing the election date so far in advance is that Labour know precisely how long they have to develop strategies and policies, how long they have up their collective sleeve to keep their powder dry before dropping a bomb on a hopefully-unsuspecting National.

        If they can lull National into a stupor, which is certainly happening so far, if they bust out the “competent opposition” card in, say, August, National will struggle to muster a coherent response in time to matter a damn.

  12. Thanks Bob, encouraging indeed, that Northland rail line needs investment and the extension to the port. And that would do much to support the Northland economy actually in Northland.

    1. That too. The email is interesting in that he goes off on a bit of a rant about all of the subjects that are mentioned here. I only hope that he shows as much passion in the house and in the press against Joyce and the Nats. Soon too please!

  13. Setting aside the fact I wouldn’t trust Parsons with a barge pole given its performance over the Big Dig in Boston, this work has no sensitivity tests based on some easily predictable changes. Engineering consultancies which are devoid of any policy or technological inputs should be taken for what they are – helpful inputs – but not gospel.

    The biggest problem is you are not driven by an outcome based objective, just a desire to justify more railways – it seems.

    Several points:
    – If by 2040 buses that operate to central Auckland are not ultra low emission, using contactless smartcards for boarding and using ITS technologies to operate in high density convoys, it would be remarkable. This would address the environmental issues, and many capacity issues. There is no good reason why by 2040 buses cannot operate like trains on dedicated busways and split for street operations.
    – By 2040 Auckland should have some form of road pricing that makes peak commuting more expensive, freeing up road space at peak times and even changing the nature of work and commuting. The extra capacity from this is ignored.
    – The whole nature of employment and commuting is likely to have changed thanks to high speed broadband. Given the predominance of CBD jobs being office oriented, increasing numbers of people will choose to work at home for at least one day a week, meaning the need to spend billions on transport infrastructure for very short periods of one way demand starts to look ridiculous.

    There needs to be a long term shift from seeking to charge everyone to build capacity that is only used for 2 hours each weekday in one direction – it is incredibly wasteful and applies to all modes.

    1. These are interesting points. Also perhaps Google may even have those buses driving themselves virtually bumper to bumper….. maybe.

      However I think we should be cautious about assuming the internet will mean a drive to decentralisation. We have the thing already and the reverse is certainly happening in Auckland. The office isn’t about the server, it’s about human contact. I work from home but I’m self employed…. I’m not losing agglomeration internally as I would have no one else where ever I was based, but I still have to chase it it externally, so I have to get to where my clients and inspirations are. Thankgod that isn’t Botany and Favona and other distant and disconnected parts of AK. But all pretty much the city and Ponsonby. And for good reason: there are thousands of businesses like mine and the efficiencies of concentration are obvious. And so are the pleasures: cities are fun, people want and need them, or we wouldn’t have them.

      The big transport related change that internet has meant for me is a huge decrease in the use of couriers delivering stuff, fewer diesel vans, as I now send bigger and bigger files down the line. As well as a general lift in productivity that has meant more time to get around to meet people in person which is exponentially useful [usually] extremely enjoyable. A few years ago I would have always driven, but now see the huge value in not… and the frustrations of living in a car priority city.

      The quality of life issues are vital- good to see the guy from Melbourne in the Herald this morning saying that if he had his time again he would focus more on livibilty. So yes Lib., let’s not build endless destroying motorways just for the morning peak.

      1. And some things just cannot be done remotely, at least not until we get some really, really good virtual presence technology.

        One example, in a couple of weeks I’ll be in Christchurch for a day to review physical security at a client’s data centre. Since my employer must pass an opinion on the setup, it’s not good enough to just ask questions since people can fudge answers and it’s also more efficient to use the Mark I Eyeball-o-meter. But it doesn’t have to be Christchurch. I’ve done the same in Albany, and people I work with have done it all over Auckland. That’s not going away. Even if we get to the point of working from home, we’re still going to need to see some things for ourselves. Which means we need to be able to get there during the working day. Which means, ideally, a useful PT network across the city so that we can work in transit and make productive use of chargeable time.

        Courtesy of our wonderful public transport system, to make a 17:00 flight to Wellington on Friday I’m having to leave work in the city at 15:30 to be sure of being at check-in on time. My girlfriend is kindly giving me a lift, but that means she has to leave her work early. If we had a train service, I wouldn’t have to inconvenience her and I could easily continue to work while in transit. It’s not so easy to do in a moving car.

        1. Anyway, I don’t believe in the advantages of rail just to service the needs of legions of salarymen rushing to their desks but because of how much more desirable and successful it will make my city to work, play, and live in. And in the confidence that by 2040 we won’t be doing the same as we do now, but we will be doing something, and doing it with each other, and most successfully in cities.

          I know the main purpose of this site is to discover and promote arguments for the utility of better transit but in the end politicians chose to buy what they like. Despite English’s fatuous speech about ‘nice to haves’ [of course your job is to choose between competing options- same as every government], Joyce is buying things that cannot be justified and ignoring things that clearly would be better- even as measured with the NZTA’s clumsy models. He lives in a world with very little scope for improvement, just more of the same, no vision, no hope for anything exponential. He doubtless considers himself to be a realist, in fact of course he is just lacking imagination and ambition beyond what there is. Furthermore this is a world that doesn’t actually like or value the city. He doesn’t think ‘how could the city be be improved’, but rather, ‘how can we avoid this place’. I see this too in people that constantly predict the end of cities and right now it is popular to claim the new technology will create some kind of new suburban nirvana. No one leaving home. What a nightmare. And it won’t happen.

          Auckland city as a place to live and work had its lowest point around twenty years ago, it is now firmly on an upswing, but it could be so much better, and yes if we invest in this it will pay back economically, but also in ways that are less easy measure. And anyway neither are easy to predict except in terms of trends and directions. Let’s encourage what could be good, not just spend to keep it as it is.

        2. A functional transit system which I can use to go shopping or out drinking after work may be a ‘nice to have’, but it is also the reason I live in Melbourne and not Auckland any more.

          It’s important to realise that cities aren’t just dormitories for workers (and transport is not just for getting from the dormitory to the workplace), they are cities for people to live in. Lose the people-ness and you also lose your workers, usually starting from the top with the most educated and successful ones.

  14. The did say exactly the same thing about the telegraph, the telephone and then the fax machine. They didn’t destroy the city so I’m not convinced email and video calling will either.

  15. Let’s be more fundamental here.

    If a quiet low/zero emission bus picks you up from near home, has next to no congestion, operates every five minutes and you almost always get a seat, why need a train?

    The modal technology is unimportant – the service is.

    Commuting is hienously expensive and grossly subsidised. Why should people who commute be subsidised by those who do not?

    1. My position on North Shore rail has been fairly consistent: that until the Northern Busway “no longer works” we don’t really need a railway line. The question of when that might happen, or what a “not working” northern busway might be like are issues that nobody really knows at the moment. My point about inner city buses is that I think there will be a point when – no matter what the propulsion – we may not want to flood any more buses into the city centre.

      Whether that happens before the busway proper hits capacity, who knows – but I suspect so.

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