Disclaimer: in professional life I have done some work on ports, including co-authoring the 2012 PwC report on future scenarios for Upper North Island ports. This post doesn’t reflect the views of my present or past employers or clients. It’s just a quick thought experiment, based on some data and a few assumptions.

The Ports of Auckland (POA) are back in the news due to their new reclamation plans. As usual, this has attracted both critics and proponents. POA’s plans have been criticised for their negative environmental impacts on the Waitemata Harbour, the loss of views of the Hauraki Gulf, and the fact that they will limit our ability to re-use port land for other purposes. On the other hand, they’ve been defended due to the economic role that POA plays in Auckland – it’s New Zealand’s largest port of import and also a significant port of export.

Ports of Auckland

As this suggests, there are both pros and cons to having a port located right on Auckland’s front door. How should we weigh them up?

Here’s one way of thinking about the question of whether we should prefer having POA in Auckland, or whether we would rather close it down and move our freight elsewhere:

  • The costs of moving the port would primarily relate to the added freight cost for Auckland’s imports and exports
  • The main benefit would be that we could repurpose POA’s land for alternative uses, such as housing, offices and retail, or public spaces.

How large are these costs and benefits?

The costs of relocating the port

One realistic way to look at the cost of port relocation is to ask: How much more would we have to spend to get the same outcomes?

If we closed down POA and shipped Auckland’s imports and exports through the Port of Tauranga (POT) instead, we would have to pay more to move those goods by land between the two cities. This would represent a net cost to New Zealand’s economy.

We can get a rough sense of these added costs by looking at current land transport costs and port volumes. According to an NZIER report published last month, in the year ended June 2014 POA handled:

  • around 968,000 twenty-foot-equivalent containers per year, 203,000 of which were trans-shipped to other ports in NZ;
  • around 207,000 cars; and
  • some other random stuff, like bulk cement.

Now, based on figures published in the 2012 PwC report (see Table 4 on page 76), the cheapest way to move goods between Tauranga and Auckland is by rail. It costs approximately $600 to move a single container by rail between the two cities. (Or around $750 to move a container by road.) While KiwiRail doesn’t currently ship cars by rail, rail operators in other countries do. Let’s assume, therefore, that it costs around the same amount ($600) to ship a single car.

Based on these land transport costs, we’re looking at an added annual cost of around $580 million. Yikes. A quite large sum. In reality, this is probably a bit on the high side, given that some of these goods will not originate from or be destined for Auckland.

In addition, we would forego the $66 million in annual dividends that POA pays to Auckland Council. So the total annual cost of relocating the port would be around $650 million.

The benefits of port relocation

Although the costs of moving POA entirely out of Auckland are high, we might be willing to bear them if the profits from land development were sufficiently high. So: How much would the land have to be worth to justify relocating POA?

Well, we know that, in order for it to be worth doing, repurposing the port land for residential and commercial uses, or public space, would have to yield at least $650 million per annum. That figure represents the minimum annual return that we would require from POA’s land.

Let’s assume, for a moment, that Auckland Council could get an average rate of return of 8% on its port land if it were put to other uses. This suggests that in order to obtain an annual return of $650 million, POA’s land would have to be worth a total of around $8.1 billion. (Calculated as follows: $650 million in annual profits / 8% rate of return = $8.1 billion.)

According to Wikipedia, POA has a total of 55 hectares of wharves and storage areas. If that were worth $8.1 billion in total, it would mean that the land would be worth around $15,000 per square metre. That’s roughly what it would take for moving the port to be a net benefit for the economy – city centre land values above $15,000 per square metre.

Now, this is in the range of current land values in the city centre – albeit on the high side. So redeveloping the port could, in principle, provide net benefits for Auckland. The case might get stronger if land values continue increasing and if the downtown revival continues at pace.

However, I don’t think this quick, back-of-the-envelope analysis proves much. For one thing, the benefits of port relocation are probably overstated due to the fact that it would be quite difficult to redevelop 55 hectares of downtown land quickly. It might take decades to realise the value of port land for alternative uses.

For another, it would be quite difficult to compensate the “losers” from the process – the firms and workers who would be worse off as a result of higher transport costs to their location in Auckland.

So, what should we do with the port?

As this analysis has (hopefully) shown, there are both costs and benefits to moving POA. And, for that matter, to leaving it in place or expanding it.

Moreover, the costs of moving POA are not infinite, which means that the benefits of doing so may at some point be large enough to justify the move. But they are very large, which means that we would have to be confident that we could actually redevelop port land in a reasonable timeframe.

It’s also important to recognise that there are other risks in moving the port, as well as uncertainty about some of the costs that I’ve cited. In my view, there are three main limitations to this analysis:

  • First, I’ve assumed that there are no technical constraints to doubling freight volumes at POT. This is probably not realistic – expanding that port would be costly both financially and environmentally.
  • Second, I’ve assumed that shipping lots more goods by rail between Tauranga and Auckland won’t drive up the price of rail freight. In reality, KiwiRail (or the government) would have to pay for quite a few track upgrades and purchases of rolling stock, which may drive up the costs of rail freight.
  • Third, I’ve assumed that it would actually be feasible to redevelop POA’s land, and that redevelopment of port land would create added value rather than simply diverting growth from elsewhere in Auckland. This is not unreasonable, but it won’t be a rapid process. As the Wynyard Quarter shows, it can take over a decade to active and develop a substantial chunk of new land.

Lastly, there are likely to be problems with the timing of funds. In principle, land development profits could be used to pay for infrastructure upgrades. In practice, it won’t work so neatly, as infrastructure requirements will be front-loaded while development profits trickle in over a period of years or decades.

In other words, actually moving the port is likely to be a costly and risky enterprise. It will be difficult to overcome the risks and up-front costs associated with doing so – meaning that we should expect the port to stay in downtown Auckland.

Port location: What do you think?

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163 comments

  1. If the long-term (50 years +) is to move the port, then perhaps the short-term is to get some of the freight that requires space (e.g. cars) to one of the other ports (Northland, Tauranga). That would have the advantage of not requiring further expansion of the existing port, while encouraging more efficient freight between ports (cars also would be currently at least moved by road, so Northland would be an option)

    1. Thus further clogging up the roads that everyone on this blog is usually against. More traffic, more pollution. Personally extending a wharf 100 metres is not a worry to me. The harbor is plenty large enough.

    2. I’m against the expansion of the port, and love the idea of opening that space up for better utilisation. I think we can all agree POA is no longer in the right place!

      A note on your calculations though:
      You can’t compare dollar values so easily; the added cost of freighting containers to an alternative location is a one that decreases the overall efficiency and thus (real) productivity of nz’s economy, whereas the gains from repurposing the POA land are likely from internal investment and thus not a true gain in NZ wealth or productivity.

      1. You raise a valuable point. If the release of port land resulted in reductions in land value elsewhere in the city centre or region, then we would over-count benefits by looking only at port land value. I discussed this in the last section of my post – see the third bullet point.

        However, I don’t think that it’s costless to leave land in port use if there are higher-value alternative uses for it. If other potential users value port land more than the port does, preventing it from being sold will reduce economic efficiency by preventing resources from going to the most productive use. That’s what I’m trying to capture in this analysis.

  2. I like your train of thought. Makes plenty of sense. Most of the people yelling about this are ill informed or not informed at all. They care about their interests to be able to see a hill from a certain point in the harbour. Rather ridiculous. People rarely understand that cost to the economy or to them personally with higher rates to offset lost incomes. Of course it is also hard to value the price of having a busy harbour and a blighted waterfront.

    I’m sure everyone would agree that the waterfront would look much nicer without the port. What about added transport costs that we will all have to pay and is everyone wanting to pay more rates for the relocation and redevelopment and the huge risk of lost revenues? I doubt it. It’s just like the stupid kauri debacle. Everyone wants a nice environment as long as they aren’t the ones footing the bill, but the reality is that we will all be footing the bill.

    I have no problems with expanding the port. It is good for the economy. However, maybe the should start looking at somehow diverting goods to other ports in the long term. Not sure how that could be achieved though.

    1. I don’t think the waterfront would look better without the port. But it will definitely look horrifyingly worse with the planned extension. Let the port expand all they want so long as the plan doesn’t narrow that stretch of harbour or block the very view that defines it as a harbour. They can freely expand upwards or eastward or southwards, just not bloody well northwards. They could build a new wharf in west auckland! So many options. Just don’t bloody narrow the prime sailing location and destroy the prime view.

    1. This is actually _not_ a simple question! I haven’t seen any reliable figures on the cost of new road/rail infrastructure through the Hunuas, so it’s hard to comment. Potentially large?

      1. It’s usually the simple questions that are the hardest to answer. I saw $4b somewhere on this site but as you said that might mean absolutely nothing. My point in part is that port will always need more space to grow – as AK’s population grows more freight will be required. So it’s an 100m now, what about in 10 years or 20 years. When will the port get to big for it’s current site – I think that might be a political question rather than a technical question.

  3. Why not just create a container yard in Auckland and immediately transfer containers to rail and move them down there? This opens up much more existing space that they could use…? Would be a win:win getting trucks off the motorways too.

    1. POA has already done this, with its Wiri inland port. Thus far, it hasn’t had a massive effect on freight mode because the costs of double handling containers outweigh the benefits to shippers and to the ports.

      1. Thats only because Ports and KR don’t currently have a end to end solution that can get the containers directly off the boat, onto a train and then to Wiri without a lot of “tedious mucking about” in between.

        I’m sure if KR and POAL put their collective minds, and finances together, they could deliver a cheaper method of getting those containers to the inland port quicker and a lot cheaper than they do now.

        This would mean that they don’t need acres of land for storing boxes – either the ones with 4 wheels or the ones without.

        1. Perhaps, but the highest costs of transport are transshipment costs, i.e., handling the stuff. Adding another link will increase costs.

  4. Is having an industrial waterfront for a small part of available waterfront really that bigger deal?

    Industry mightn’t be sexy for those wanting a Latte at the end of Queen’s Wharf but if the Auckland Anniversary Port Tours are anything to go by interest in our industrial eastern waterfront is quite immense. And there is of course the economic generator to which bulk cargo out does the cruise industry pre or post “growth” on a rate of 3:1.

    I ran a series a while ago on relocating the Port and the answer that would come back is without Central Government help even over 20 years the cost is prohibitive whether the relocated cargo comes from the north or Tauranga.

    The RMA itself made moving the Port within Auckland hard enough as is as well http://voakl.net/2014/11/12/port-of-auckland-relocation-and-the-unitary-plan/ if submissions to the Unitary Plan were anything to go by.

    So then should we come to accept that a small proportion of our waterfront is used on industry would be the better question?
    My answer would be yes. Industry mightn’t be sexy to some but it is one of our largest economic generators especially to the less well off areas of Auckland (the South). Oh and yes again it seems to attract a large amount of visitors each Anniversary Weekend

    The Relocation and Waterfront Series
    http://voakl.net/port-of-auckland-index/port-of-auckland-and-the-poal-relocation-project/

    http://voakl.net/port-of-auckland-index/the-auckland-water-frontier/

    1. Agreed. Incidentally, this back-of-the-envelope analysis would tend to support your points, not detract from them. I kinda like having a working port near downtown, but that’s a personal aesthetic preference.

    2. I think we need to be clear here – we are not talking about industry, but about the ports operator using Auckland’s waterfront as a parking space for imported cars. There is a small gain for the ports company but it comes at a huge cost to Auckland.

      This whole argument that you need to damage the environment to create wealth belongs to the time of the industrial revolution. Modern industry in no way requires covering the waterfront with cars, I would argue that today’s industries are better served by creating a dynamic and attractive urban environment, and it is this future-facing economic rationale that should underpin the Council’s thinking.

      1. Port is industry and classified as industry (logistics and transport). It also serves our industrial complexes in the South and through extension the rest of the economic machine.

        I am not interested in subjective arguments either:
        1) On Bledisole Wharf I saw 7 electric trains, trucks, tractors, containers, plant equipment for industry, construction equipment and plant all recently. So the wharf is a true multi cargo wharf as it stands.

        2) All cargo including those seven EMUs are cleared within 48 hours unless being trans-shipped. In fact I saw an EMU leave the port yesterday and another one in Manukau on its final stages of its journey

        3) All activities we do will have some consequence on the environment physical and human. We have (unless National are playing silly buggers) laws in place to avoid, remedy, or mitigate such effects and consequences.

        3) No one is covering the water front in cars and in fact the Port has shrunk its footprint covering all of the waterfront between Wynyard Quarter to the container terminal to now effectively the terminal and Bledisole Wharf. So we have plenty of waterfront available to share between our industrial complex that is the port, and the rest of urban environment.

        So where I come from is pragmatism with environment, industry, and economics in all in mind, not a utopia pipe dream.

        1. Aren’t we also squeezed for space going forward with regards to cruise ships, especially as they increase in size & we want to increase tourism to Auckland/NZ?

        2. Funny enough I was having a conversation about that earlier with someone else.

          The answer to that is yes we are especially the bigger liners like the Cunnard Liners (QE, QM2 and Queen Victoria).

          Here is a picture of the various berth lengths http://wp.me/a266na-2Bn

          The Bledisole extensions (black and yellow) give the best options to take two small cruiser liners or something as massive as the Queen Mary II. No other wharf apart from Wynard and the Container Terminal can take them.

          So when the Queen Mary docks your view is going to be blocked any how from just about any wharf.

          Cunnard have believe to be said unless their is a suitable wharf the three big ships wont visit post 2016 as Queens and Princess Wharf are not suited to the point of not safe.

          Now Wynyard presents an option especially with its length already. Maybe this could be used as a catalyst to remove the tank farm and get the place ready for the big ships post 2016. In any case with the amount of development and infrastructure going in at Wynyard Quarter, that wharf might be best suited in the long term

        3. And how much do those cruise ships really pump into the AUCKLAND local economy?

          The POAL Chair said today “1 million” (I assume $1m a ship visit), is the total spend in Auckland, but how much of that is real spend (as opposed to say POAL berthage fees or contracted tourist trips out of Auckland e.g. going Cross country by bus to e.g. Napier to meet the ship there at the next port of call).

          And whats the opportunity cost of the lost tourism spend by all the other locals – the ones, like me who stay away from the waterfront when these cruise ships are in.

          As for using Wynyard wharf – sure, but those cruise ships need passenger handling facilities currently Queens wharf is the only one for that purpose. And who will pay for that? not POAL or the cruise companies.
          So it falls on ATTED or WA (effectively Council ratepayers).

          I can see an easy fix for the current Cruise ship problems – extend Queens Wharf (or properly re-purpose Wynyard).
          But in my mind the jury is still out on the benefits these cruise ships actually bring to Auckland.

          Christchurch is having the exact same debate and they can’t justify the $40m “cost” of the facilities replacement in Lyttleton for a similar number of big cruise ships that call a year.
          So if they can’t justify it when Christchurch will become the only port in the SI the cruise ships stop at, then what chance Auckland can make a proper economic fist of it?

        4. There of lot of shape shifting of position by the Ports on what exactly the extensions are for.

          1 minute its for Post-Panamax Container ships to use, then next its for car imports to use, then now (“nek minute”) its for cruise ships to use.

          Seems to me that the Ports is shaping their stance based on the perceived (or wished for on the part of Ports) public understanding of what’s going on.

          We don’t get a clear picture from Ports, except that its “a dire emergency we build this stuff now” and what worries me, is that we will end with 3 sets of port extensions – one for each purpose with no sharing between types of ships using the port.

          To be clear cruise liners is a the latest “big thing” but its a “Johhny come lately” to this ports party and it will likely disappear just as quickly as it came (post 2016) – as the cruise lines are threatening now.

          And in truth I think cruise is more a nuisance for the other port operations as it blocks up the wharves for other POAL customers, the ones importing or exporting stuff and that you would believe that POAL makes the bulk of its money from. [Can’t tell for sure as POAL says it won’t divulge these figures on where its revenue comes from by shipping type].

          The only thing that POAL haven’t yet invoked is a terrorist threat as to why the building must go ahead now (in April).

        5. I think you have said before somewhere else that the Cruise industry was the latest “big thing” and was reason why I produced the freight vs people post on my blog at the time as well. http://voakl.net/2015/03/20/freight-or-tourists/

          As with three types of wharf extensions which each set serving only one type rather than share, I hope for Council’s sake that the situation is knocked on the head for utilisation sakes at the minimum.

        6. “No one is covering the water front in cars and in fact the Port has shrunk its footprint covering all of the waterfront between Wynyard Quarter to the container terminal to now effectively the terminal and Bledisole Wharf. So we have plenty of waterfront available to share between our industrial complex that is the port, and the rest of urban environment.”

          Hmm, not the impression you get when you down there.

          Fact is multiple car carriers can, and do, dock at once. They all unload stuff, lots and lots of cars for one.

          Yes the big expensive machinery and EMU’s are cleared out quickly. But those thousands of cars can’t be moved as quickly as 7 EMUs can be, so they sit there and eat up wharf space in a single layer ‘cos they can’t be stacked without expensive parking buildings, which then preclude the use of that space for anything else like machinery, more EMUs or containers.

          When sizing the space needed for the car trade you can to cater for the peaks not the averages. Which is what POAL are doing – over provisioning wharf space for cars for the few peaks a year.
          As 50% of the cars don’t stay in Auckland, why bring them across the wharves here in the first place?

        7. That is a good question Greg. Why are 50% of those cars that dont stay in Auckland coming through Auckland rather than a port closer to their destination.

          Are the other ports not big enough or is Tauranga which moves mainly containers on one side and logs/food on the other just really not set for taking the big car ships.

        8. ‘3) No one is covering the water front in cars and in fact the Port has shrunk its footprint covering all of the waterfront between Wynyard Quarter to the container terminal to now effectively the terminal and Bledisole Wharf. So we have plenty of waterfront available to share between our industrial complex that is the port, and the rest of urban environment.’

          Bullshit Ben. This is entirely about car importation. Low cost, space wasting, poorly planed, inefficient storage of tin cans, this is not about containers, or bigger ships, or even the cement shift. It’s entirely about car importing. And land manufacture.

          Take land ownership off these people, they have no right to it, it isn’t theirs, and nor is the harbour.

        9. Patrick you socialist anti car bias is showing again.

          Around 33% of Bledisole pre and post expansion would have cars (and other machinery) sitting on it for 48 hours as they are cleared out (unless 4 ships were in at once and it happens across all ship modes including cruiser liners) to their distribution points – mostly in the South. As I noted earlier there were 7 EMUs sitting there as well waiting to be cleared out at the time as well.

          The Port can be more efficient in clearing the cars off faster or finding out why the 50% that get imported into Auckland go outside of Auckland on land transport modes.

          I have noticed the increased numbers of new cars coming through (our mate George has as well) and I am putting it down to increased consumer confidence thus the renewal of our old and shitty fleet (the renewal of the fleet means a more fuel efficient and environmentally fleet compared to the clangers on the road).

          And no, not interested in what amounts to confiscation of land to which the Port sits on. Been enough of that and in no mood for more because of someone’s socialist bent.

        10. “socialist anti car bias”

          Historically, socialist and statist societies, from the Soviet Union to the welfare states of western Europe to dirigiste South Korea, have been very enthusiastic about producing and driving cars. Skepticism about the negative effects of a car-intensive transport system have come from a more eclectic group of people, including environmentalists, right-wing mayors such as Michael Bloomberg and Boris Johnson, and public choice economists like Anthony Downs.

          Please avoid inaccurate accusations of political bias.

        11. No Ben I am being factual.

          What metric are your percentages? Do you use weight like the port does in its PR? You do understand that cars weigh very little in relation to the land they occupy when stored spread out as POAL do. So 33% by weight gives no indication of space occupied. A glance at the actual use of the general cargo wharves confirms this.

          Furthermore your assumptions about vehicle demand fail to acknowledge that we are going through a catch-up in vehicle upgrades deferred through the lean years of the GFC. Therefore it is likely that volumes will stabilise or drop. But regardless, there is no law that says 90% of the nation’s vehicle imports need to come through this port as is currently the case. Especially as Aucklanders are not willing to pay the price of the continued destruction of our harbour.

          PoAL directors need to find a better solution or acknowledge their inadequacy for the role and resign immediately. Brown and the Council need to make these options clear. Their jobs are next.

    1. Well I don’t think that’s the idea, if relocated the other site would need to be finished and ready to ensure a swift move, if anything the “wharfies” will just be getting a bit of extra OT.

  5. Interesting. But not the issue at hand at all. There is absolutely no pressing need to move the entire or even a substantial part of the port operations from its current site.

    There is however an urgent need for the port to be run in the interests of the whole community, current and future, including the nation’s wider economy.

    If even a small number of the vehicles currently being imported [at unusually high levels as the market catches up with replacement deferred for several years] were either moved through the port quicker, their arrivals better spaced, or some arriving through another port, then the ‘need’ for more space would disappear.

    Furthermore a stronger grip on governance of the port co by its owner is clearly required, and a more transparent and honest executive have also been shown as vital through this process.

    I see no need for the port co to own land at all, it should focus on operations, the land should be transferred to its 100% owner, us, and leased for operational need. I suspect that would immediately lead to the discovery of a great deal of new found spatial efficiency by the port co.

    1. Good point why does POAL need to own the port land – thats a 19th century artifact of the old Harbour Board QUANGOs from decades ago.

      POAL should be made to hand over all the Port land to a CCO like Waterfront Auckland. With operational access to the land (and water) guaranteed by renewable leases.

      Then if POAL want to expand its operational lease, it then has to make a case to the CCO that it needs more land, once the case is made, then the process for delivering that can be done by the CCO.

      This then removes POAL from the role of both judge and executioner of the harbour with all the conflicts that has.

    2. “I see no need for the port co to own land at all, it should focus on operation” Exactly! If they paid commercial rent for the land they would try and use the land sensibly and have no incentive to pinch more land for free out of the harbour. As it is they can be as inefficient as they want.

  6. I agree it would be an interesting exercise. Thames may be an option, and I would also look at whangarei because the international journey is shorter and whangarei could do with the work. I would put the navy there as well.Alternatively keep the port but reduce its size by 25 % to free up land to develop and create a 2nd port for the bigger freight ships

    1. Well Tauranga is that port, they already have the draft to take bigger ships, Auckland doesn’t and we are not going to happy on a massive dredging programme either [or pay for it]. Port of Tauranga is already directly connected to the South Auckland industrial zone, and it is sufficiently more efficient than PoAL that it wears the rail costs for containers between the port and it’s Onehunga inland hub. It is essentially already Auckland’s other port, except in terms of ownership [although I bet there are lots of Auckland owners of PoT shares].

      Right-size the port, talk of moving it is a straw man, there is literally nowhere obvious to move it to nor a need.

      1. Yes, it could stay in some form over time, perhaps downsizing in stages as other infrastructure is made available. In the way future maybe removed totally. Please educate me someone: Why can’t something be built at Onehunga on a larger scale….gotta make the water deeper I guess etc, can ships go from the West side without it costing more in travel etc?

        1. This is actually a really interesting question. Even setting aside the (potentially significant) financial and environmental costs of dredging, the challenge would be getting shipping lines to serve a west coast container port. Because NZ’s imports and exports are “imbalanced” – e.g. Auckland takes a lot of imports but Tauranga ships out more exports – shipping lines have to make multiple stops up and down the country.

          Having to go all the way around Cape Reinga would add quite a bit of cost and difficulty. As we found out when New Plymouth’s port tried to add international container services, most shipping lines are not keen to do that.

        2. Tides for one. Onehunga also has just had or is getting reclaimation done on some brand new beaches. Would be a shame to now take this back.

        3. And would require massive constant dredging amongst other reasons such as the hoo-ha from those at the mouth of the harbor going on about environmental concerns.

  7. imagine sydney if had left its port downtown, rather than moving to botany, or london for that matter, was it a mstake for those cities.

      1. The ecological devastation required to move Auckland port counts this out as an idea. Gov’t need to step in and help co-ordinate the 3 ports – Tga, Akl, Msdn

        1. Where is the ecological devastation?
          Ships sail from northern ports to Auckland. Whangarei is several hours less steaming from any foreign port. Less bunker fuel burnt. Less Brydes whales killed.
          No need to undertake blasting in the Rangitoto Channel to allow for super-Panamax container ships.
          Electrifying the Auckland to Marsden Point line with some judicious straightening of the line would probably take significant numbers of existing truck movements off SH1 between Auckland and Whangarei, which would counter some of the increase in trucks generated by the use of Marsden Point for Auckland’s freight. With enough work on the line electric passenger trains could take cars off the route.
          Keeping tidal speeds down near Devonport will save fuel for Auckland ferries.
          Cargo for Northland won’t need to be trucked north,
          More jobs in Whangarei, less demand for expansion of Auckland, less congestion in Auckland.
          Overall the amount of diesel burnt may not that much greater than the present situation.

  8. Some facts.
    POAL wharves currently are about 5.8km of absolute waterfront land when measured from the eastern end of Ferguson whard by the marine resecue centre to the eastern side foot of Queens wharf.

    This is all land that POAL currently “walls off” from public access for safety and other reasons. This total includes the soon to be demolished finger wharf.

    This is a little bit less than the same amount of waterfront land as all the land from the intersection of Ngapipi Road and Tamaki drive through to St Heliers Bay, at the start of Cliff Road.

    That is a lot of waterfront that POAL currently control.

    The fact that POAL can’t manage to tie up current and future boats with sufficient lengths along that much waterfront age is mainly due to the poor configuration of the wharves they have built for the last 100+ years.

    It is true the largest change is since Containerisation of shipping came in over 40+ years ago now, with the bulk of the wharves that existed then being obsoleted over time.

    You have to wonder though, that perhaps a big picture view is needed of the POAL operations to ensure that the wharves they and they ones they seek to build are going to last long enough.
    Currently POAL’s way to manage longer ships is to make the wharves longers, but surely, if you were to remove all finger wharves and simply fill in harbour edge to provide a large enough space you could accommodate ships of any length in any number over the 2km of absolute land frontage that faces the waters edge.

    The fundamental truth is that it is not the containers that cause the capacity issues as containers can be stacked 7 high easily on land without need for special structures.
    But the endless stream of cars which are disgorged from car carriers cannot be so easily stacked – they need expensive buildings or need to be removed from the wharf quickly once landed.

    I know some say that the cars have to be left on the wharf to be cleared, but there is no reason for that, it is just a convenience of the importers, POAL and some government agencies like BioSecurity.

    Time for a rethink.

    1. It’s a business that all the nice things you like to buy that can not be airfreighted come through. That need will not disappear overnight if ever.

  9. Albeit a back of the envelope exercise it remains a little myopic. What is lacking is any kind of understanding of the value of public amenity, fresh air , lack of trucks, better traffic flow, inclusion of the harbour edge in the city’s public life etc. There is a huge value not just to ports of Auckland but to the surrounding land and the city in general by moving the port. Thats what we need a dollar value on.
    Tauranga has economic growth. Northland doesnt. The Port should move to Whangarei as a catalyst for Northland. Mr Peters should be all over that idea as part of his current campaign.
    As a catalyst for the development of the Auckland port land we should take a leaf out of any number of developing countries. We need to host the olympics. The current port land is developed on the basis infrastructure including housing is developed as part of an event like the olympics . Its not going to happen over night but need a bit of vision and leadership here.

    1. Marsden is a great naturally deep water port, but is at the one end of the country as opposed to Tauranga which is centrally placed. But also Auckland is well and truly a blockage for accessing Marsden, by road or rail.
      There is not much problem with fixing the rail connection to the new port and upgrading the route itself, but through Auckland remains a big issue, only two tracks through New Lynn, and that contested junction at Newmarket. So perhaps build a big hub in Kumeu then double handle goods onto to trucks and drive them through the city to South Auckland and beyond? Not much better than driving them all the way…

      Tauranga looks like the best bet to take the pressure off Auckland. But that would imply a need for a national ports strategy, some actually leadership on this issue at government and regional level….

      1. Cue the avondale southdown freight line and third/fourth main line from papakura to westfield. Certainly solves some of those issues.

      2. Patrick, I love the simplicity of your earlier suggestion; POAL become a leaseholder of publicly owned land. Neat, simple and provides incentives for POAL to drive up the productivity per sq mtr of what they lease.
        I also like the idea of shifting the cars to Whangarei for the simple reason that it is a class of ship that only delivers goods and the ship do not also have to go to AKL or TGA to pick up milk powder, logs or kiwifruit. Yes, getting the cars from WHG to AKL would require effort but Northland has the nations highest number of unemployed youth (I’ve heard) and we are soon getting a motorway to Northland that by all accounts will be largely empty except for two days a year. Maybe the toll paid by every imported car driving south on that RON would push the cost benefit ratio positive. Quick, there’s time before the bye election for Joyce to add this to pork barrel.

    2. “What is lacking is any kind of understanding of the value of public amenity, fresh air , lack of trucks, better traffic flow, inclusion of the harbour edge in the city’s public life etc.”

      In principle, many of those effects (but not all) would be capitalised into city centre land values. In other words, if the removal of the port led to better public space and air quality in the city centre, people would pay more to locate there. Or, equivalently, pay more to occupy former port land that’s been released for other uses. Consequently, I suspect that I’ve implicitly accounted for many of the amenity effects.

      “We need to host the olympics.”

      Definitely not. The Olympics are, by this point, an expensive scam perpetrated on taxpayers of the host country. The London Olympics cost US$14.6 billion all up. We simply couldn’t afford to host it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

      1. Yes but how much is this costing us now? In term of amenity, adverse health effects, traffic, accidents, pollution etc. You should put a price to this and it would cut a big chunk out of the 66 millions in dividends. Also not all of the ports import stays in AKL so that would need to be taken into account. Seems to me that you took the best case scenario for keeping the port and the worst for moving it…

        1. I also didn’t account for the fact that port volumes are growing, which will tend to push up the cost of port relocation over time. The reason I didn’t account for every last cost and benefit is because this is a blog post, rather than paid work, which limits the amount of time and data I can use.

        2. Surely if the cargo is growing, the sooner you relocate the port, the lower will be the cost of relocating it?
          You either invest in growing capacity by increasing the size of the port and adding more equipment in situ, or you put that new plant and the increase in size into a new place. Presumably buying existing land at Marsden Point will be cheaper than filling the Waitemata Harbour. Therefore it would seem logical that relocating a growing port to a relatively undeveloped area such as Marsden Point could be cheaper than expanding the port in the Waitemata Harbour by filling the sea with spoil.

      2. The Olympics might have cost $14.6 but what was the dollar value it brought in terms of urban regeneration, infrastructure , global marketing etc.
        Obviously a lot of documented pit falls with the model from Barcelona slum clearance through to overspends such as London. But the idea is to use an event like the olympics to leverage investment and generate catalyst projects. Like the Rugby world cup started to do before getting derailed by small town politics.
        The question really is how do you put a number on the of opening up the harbor edge that takes into account all the wider environmental, health and social benefits ? Its a business case that current economic models don’t support. You may find the cost of moving the port North including an Avondale Southdown link for instance is supported in a more holistic economic model.
        One further point to consider in all this where does global warming and sea level rise fit with development of the waterfront generally and port operations specifically ? Thats both an economic, environmental and moral question.

        1. We should never ever host an event that would require the building of more sporting venues specifically for it. It would probably be more economically effective to just take the money we were to spend and just hand it out for people to spend. At least some of them would likely buy something useful.

          Read this (I’ve haven’t read the book, but the review does seem to sum up the points nicely) on why we shouldn’t

          http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21645114-hosting-olympics-and-world-cup-bad-citys-health-just-say-no

  10. What if you went the other way Peter? Like work out how much the port land is actually worth and adjust for financing and a long land release time frame. They you get a “redeveloping the port land is worth X”.

    Second step is “what outcome costing less than X gets as as good or better freight supply”, I.e that would set the budget for a new port or range of transport improvements to existing ports.

    1. “What if you went the other way Peter? Like work out how much the port land is actually worth and adjust for financing and a long land release time frame.”

      Because nobody is paying me to build a general equilibrium model of city centre land prices 😉

      That said, I did test a few scenarios for the time-lag required to fully develop the port land. If it takes more than a decade to redevelop it, things look quite grim for the BCR. Given the experience of Wynyard, I suspect that we would _not_ be able to achieve full redevelopment in a decade.

  11. You haven’t put in any calculation regarding the Northland port at Marsden Point : its a natural deep-water harbour and is currently under-utilised. A rail connection between Auckland and Marsden Pt would resolve some of the costs of transferring the business of freight via Northland, and Auckland could become a major cruise ship / tourist entity .
    To Ari above – if you haven’t been out on the Waitemata Harbour in a small boat during weekends and holiday times, then you won’t realise that the Waitemata and Hauraki Gulf are both extremely crowded with recreation, tourist, fishers, and other boaties – all competing for space, alongside huge freight carriers and cruise ships. It is getting to the point where it can be quite dangerous at times with so much harbour traffic.

  12. Moving the Port to Marsden Point and or Tauranga, has some difficulties that KiwiRail have to overcome. You should factor these costs into the equation, Peter.
    Shifting that much inbound cargo from Auckland means KiwiRail need to substantially invest in their rail links. Here is my shortlist;
    1) Upgrade the Kaimai tunnel – presently single track restricted on speed. Perhaps double track the tunnel.
    2) Double track the Tauranga to main trunk line. If not all, a substantial length to ensure better utilisation of the corridor.
    3) Third freight line from Papakura to Southdown.
    4) Connect Marsden Point to the rail network. Work for Winstone. Long overdue after years of talk.
    5) Substantial upgrade of the Northland line to Auckland – tunnels need lowering, track needs work to increase train speeds.
    6) Build the Avondale to Southdown link primarily to carry freight.
    7) New rolling stock and engines to carry this extra freight going by rail.
    8) New freight depots – Helensville or Papakura? The 10 minute frequency of commuter trains will mean delays in moving freight through to Southdown, so maybe smarter to load on to trucks north ot south of the city..

    I am betting Simon Power has none of those projects on his budget radar, and he is from Tauranga!
    But then the Government’s bet on the Holiday highway north maybe a bet that all this freight will travel by trucks…

    1. No motorway access from Helensville Don. It would be a complete nightmare with all those extra trucks either running down the main street of Helensville on SH16 or across local roads through to Silverdale.

    2. And every inch of every new piece of railway line will be fought tooth and nail against by environmentalists, IWI and God knows who else. Do you really think taxpayers would happily foot that bill? Right now there is an efficient piece of infrastructure working perfectly well called the Auckland Port. All they want to do is make a small expansion into the harbour and look at the irrational fuss over that! With increasing population comes increasing consumerism, what better place to bring goods in for Aucklanders than the existing port? That is a cost we can survive. Massive infrastructure outlays, roading, rail, and the political nonsense that goes with it – we could not survive that – and we would all pay heavily.

      1. But those same groups are also protesting about the Port expansion.

        The question is whether there is another option. What is worse – more expansion into the harbour or new rail lines?

        1. Expansion into the harbor is cheapest and at the end of the day no matter what you do some twit will dream up an environmental reason not to do it.

        2. It’s cheap and the lazy option in the long run….there’s a bigger picture to consider.

      2. A small expansion sure. But a small expansion can still be worth fighting if there are better options. If your neighbour wanted to stack bricks next to his fence would you rather he piled them up so they blocked your only window with a sea view or so they were two metres to the left where they didn’t block your view. In both cases he could argue that it’s only a small pile, what are you worried about. You’d say just put the small pile anywhere except for in front of your window.

        All this talk of moving the port out of auckland is a red herring to this particular expansion plan and also reaks of the nimbyism so often derided on this blog. So ignore those arguments and look at this particular plan critically. Don’t just accept it because in your mind the port = economic growth and the opponents must be opposed to good things.

    3. One more item for Don’s list. Raise clearances (headroom) to allow double stacking. It’s pretty standard everywhere else, and it might (might) offset the additional transport costs of moving freight from Whangarei. (Also keeping in mind that moving freight from Whangarei, by road if that’s the decision or only viable alternative, to anyplace south of Auckland requires full build-out of the Northern Extension and fighting congestion in central AKL. Adds greatly to cost and reliability if those things aren’t dealt with. Shippers will not be impressed.)

  13. I think Peter’s analysis, if back-of-the-envelope, is pretty sharp as far as it goes. But whilst he accounts for the economic costs to the country, we have to recognise that those costs are passed on to the shippers and their customers. NZ is a high-cost country in part because of its isolation. Is it good policy to exacerbate that problem? I think not.

    I have previously outed myself as a proponent of the port staying – and expanding – where it is. One reason is simply because it’s already there. It’s a very large amount of sunk costs, paid for and is fully integrated into the economy and fabric of Auckland.

    I love waterfront development as much as anybody, and worked for years on waterfront redevelopment plans in much more difficult circumstances that this, and I understand the amenity value if it. I also understand infrastructure costs, which are high. But waterfronts are often multi-use infrastructure, as is Auckland’s. Thing is, ports have to be near water unlike residential or Starbucks. I recognise that the land is valuable and could be utilised for “higher value” uses. But it could be that the highest and best use is as a port.

    If as Peter assumes, the value of the land is in line with current downtown values, to get a similar return, port land has to be developed to similar density, with a similar ROI. No comments here seem to support that kind of development, and nor would I. That’s not what a high amenity site is for. So the return is definitely high. And if views of Hauraki Gulf are so precious, any structure over two stories should be prohibited.

    I also have to forgive POA for developing in a perhaps haphazard way, simply because it has taken 100 years to get where it is. Containerisation changed sea freight radically and every port in the world had to adapt, fairly quickly, and who is to say they did it better than POA? Obsolete facilities are common in old harbours.

    If we’re going to discuss (seriously) moving the port, let’s at the same time discuss moving the airport. Putting it closer to Hamilton would improve access, especially once the high speed rail link is complete. It makes just as much sense to me.

    I’ll finish by observing that Tauranga would LOVE to have our port. Why?

  14. Why aren’t the car imports moved by rail to Wiri, soon after arriving at POA? If they were out of the way it would free up the wharf for more ship operations. And didn’t Kiwirail say they had more flexibility with rail movements now?

    I wrote to Len about this on Sunday night, still waiting to hear back…

  15. > the cheapest way to move goods between Tauranga and Auckland is by rail. It costs approximately $600 to move a single container by rail between the two cities. …

    > Based on these land transport costs, we’re looking at an added annual cost of around $580 million. Yikes. A quite large sum. In reality, this is probably a bit on the high side, given that some of these goods will not originate from or be destined for Auckland.

    You’re adding the extra costs of getting freight to Tauranga, but Tauranga is quite a bit cheaper to ship from once you’re there, isn’t it? After all, there’s a vast amount of freight railed between Auckland and the Port of Tauranga already. Surely those cheaper rates are going to offset quite a lot of the extra cost.

  16. I remember reading an article in the NZH about building a new port in the Firth of Thames. The land is cheap (well not much land needed because it would be built in the sea) and would provide good access (with a new rail link and road).
    It would be somewhat cost effective and would free up valuable real estate in Auckland.
    Relocate the Navy to Marsden (Whangarei is going to replace it’s airport soon and one idea is to locate it at Marsden also – joint civilian/military airport). Tauranga can continue on for logs etc (perhaps as others have suggested have all 3 ports work together). http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836773

    1. problem with Firth of Thames – it is shallow. You will have to dredge. Silt problems for shellfish farming/salmon farming. Oh dear, never mind!

  17. Leave the Port where it is, it has always been important to Auckland (remember the old coat of arms? a quarter of it was the Port).

    What should be removed is Port Management.

    Making the CCOs actually controlled by Council would also help.

    The Port folk do witter on about how efficient they are. Heres the perfect way to prove it- do more with the same amount of land..

    Could a rule that if a container is not going to be delivered to somewhere within 20 km of the port, it should be trained to Wiri first work?

    1. Yes, we can carve a canal across the skinniest part of Auckland, at Portage Road (near Princes Street in Otahuhu), thus opening up Onehunga wharf to the East coast. 🙂

  18. “According to Wikipedia, POA has a total of 55 hectares of wharves and storage areas. If that were worth $8.1 billion in total, it would mean that the land would be worth around $15,000 per square metre. That’s roughly what it would take for moving the port to be a net benefit for the economy – city centre land values above $15,000 per square metre.”

    According to Ports of Auckland’s rather breezy financial review it values property at $226m plus an additional $73m for ‘investment properties’. If your calculations are correct then they are undervaluing their key asset at least 15 times, which of course means the return they are reporting on assets is also out by this factor, hence the use of valuable land for low value things like storing containers and cars.

    http://www.poal.co.nz/news_media/publications/2014_Reviews/2014_FinancialReview.pdf

    1. Thanks for the reference – I had meant to take a look at that but it slipped my mind. Just to be clear, though, I’m not saying that the port land is currently worth $8.1 billion – rather, that’s roughly what it would *have to be worth* in order to make port relocation viable.

      POA’s current valuations suggest that we’re pretty far from that point. Even if they understate the value of their land by a factor of 10, we’re still quite a ways out…

      1. Yep, I got you weren’t valuing it as such and didn’t make it very clear in my response.

        Given the council just sold QEII Square for $26m I don’t think their current valuation is very realistic though. It’s way too low.

  19. I rather like the working port where it is. But yes shift all the cars by rail to Wiri ‘inland port’ every night. That would free considerable space on the wharves, and reduce the number of large trucks on city roads. I have seen wagons of cars overseas, three levels high with mesh sides. It seemed so sensible. We could do that too.

  20. Nicely put Peter. I thought of a few other things to consider:

    There are spillover / environmental benefits from not having a port in close proximity to so many people, and in particular reducing the need for containers and trucks to move in & out of the CBD so much.

    Offsetting this might be costs of expanded port facilities elsewhere – I imagine that some but not all of POAL’s infrastructure could be moved. Also there are possible costs of remediating the port land to put it to other uses.

    One thing that bugs me is that (as I understand it — happy to be corrected) the Port land is valued for rating and accounting purposes in its current use rather than at its true opportunity cost. If opportunity cost were used it might focus Council’s mind on the question of whether it should own a port, which is a separate question from where the port should be located.

    In any case you are quite right that we should think of the port as a cost and the correct question is what is the lowest cost way to handle freight (where costs include all opportunity costs and spillovers). From a national perspective arguments about economic activity and jobs are less important – the activity will not disappear in aggregate.

    (Disclaimer: like almost every other economist in this town I’ve also worked on a Port report (this one: http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/images/covec-port-of-auckland-discussion-paper-full-report.pdf) but the above are personal comments.)

    1. Maybe the problem is too many people close to a port as opposed to a port too close to people? Auckland was built up around the port (for obvious reasons) so it’s not too clever to see it as a bad thing. Maybe we should discourage people from living close to it? Same logic but reversed.

  21. The calculations suggest a big bang approach to close POA. It also assumes that everything that goes through POA stays in Auckland – is that correct.

    It is the expansion that is the main issue so why not keep POA as a cruse liner terminal and retain some of its other current functions. Move the others over time to Tauranga and Whangarei. The issue is they are 3 separate legal entities with different (some overlap) ownership.

    What about coastal shipping – retain POA at a reduced in size as a coastal hub for Auckland freight but use Tauranga/Whangarei as the main ports.

    The additional benefit is that Auckland is seen as an overheat market so surely losing/reducing one industry wouldn’t be a major, especially if that industry moved (in part) up to Northland.

    1. Awesome – be prepared to pay even more for the things you like then. Transporting goods destined for Auckland en masse from Tauranga will involve all kinds of additional costs, not just freight, but roading / train upgrades, pollution, etc. If the port’s business is changed as you suggest, better get a higher paying job. The reason goods disembark at whichever port they do is all down to economics, nothing more.

      1. So no different to any other town/city not currently served by a port.

        People seem to think it is all (larger port) or nothing (move port elsewhere). All I question is whether there is a third, middle ground.

        1. Maybe we should move people? It really is a strange thing to have people complaining about their lifeline – which is what a port effectively is. Trouble these days is that everyone feels obliged to complain about everything – often without giving things serious thought. If all those who carried on about the port expansion were told that any change or move of the port would cost them $X in real money – they might have a rethink. Adding higher transportation costs to goods landed simply because some feel ‘obliged’ to complain about some view or other that they don’t look at anyway is rather odd. 100 metres of wharf is really nothing in the scheme of things. Can you imagine the outcry if there were no harbor bridge and someone suggested one be built? OMG the dramas would go on for decades. Why change something that works? My vote is to build the extensions – create some employment and then watch as the fuss dies down when everyone realizes 100 metres is zip.

        2. Grant, that’s kinda like the crazies that think all of the world will be covered in runaway roading so we must all now cycle or walk. The costs to expand any wharf are horrific, and even if in another 50 years another 100 metres were required it would still be zilch in the grander scheme. The money doesn’t fall from the sky so expansion will be fairly self restricting based on that, volumes of goods moved, foreign buyers and Auckland’s needs. It’s taken over 100 years to get where it is right now. So out-of-control expansion is unlikely. These goods are coming in whether we like it or not, so the question really is – expand the wharf or expend billions elsewhere to improve roading / trains, etc if they are landed at other ports. Moving the port or building a new one are the ideas of fantasy.

        3. “the crazies that think all of the world will be covered in runaway roading so we must all now cycle or walk”

          Do you buy your straw men in bulk from a wholesaler, or make them yourself at home?

          Your comments here and elsewhere in the thread contravene our first user guideline, which states that “Commenters are guests and are asked to behave accordingly. Treat other members of the community with civility and respect.” Furthermore, your use of a pseudonym may also run afoul of user guideline 2, which encourages frequent commentors to use their real names.

          http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/about/user-guidelines/

          If you continue to act disrespectfully, your comments will be deleted or moderated.

        4. Peter, with all due respect there are plenty of people on this blog who believe the city would be paved over with roads if their preferred means of transport (cycling, PT, walking) are not adopted enmasse. Do you want me to list those people? My comments over transport and roading are often met with open derision – yet nothing happens to those people. Being told I am talking ‘bollocks’ when suggesting that cars and such means of transport will be with us for quite some time to come and suggesting that engineers work on making things flow better are often rubbished and ridiculed. Bit onesided don’t you think?.

        5. My apologies regarding your name, in that case. Your email uses a pseudonym, which makes it difficult to interpret your identity.

          That aside, you’ve written 21 comments on this thread out of a total of 100. This is quite a lot. Many of these comments are rude (“crazies”), attack straw-man positions, or raise off-topic issues. While I appreciate that a range of views are necessary for a vigorous debate, I’d encourage you to apply a bit of moderation in the future.

        6. Peter, your comment re ‘straw men’ I’ll leave. The problem with these blogs is that (sometimes) facts are often overlooked to the point where things that aren’t even real are debated, which should be of concern, as no doubt some observers will run with these thoughts out in the real world which can cause degrees of mayhem until factually confronted. That is why I am asking for quantification of some items and challenge them- otherwise the debate will be about nothing real. Which would be kinda pointless.

      2. Often the disembarkation port is all to do with the economics of the shipping company and nothing to do with the economics of the ultimate end recipient of the cargo. If one port can turn a ship around in half the time compared to another, then the shipping company is more likely to use the fast port to unload. Tough if the inland infrastructure from that port is four times as expensive as the slow port..
        I suspect Marsden Point would be a far more attractive destination to large container ships as it would have less time constraints on entry times. They wouldn’t have to wait for high tide in the Rangitoto Channel.
        I would expect the foreign shipping companies to keep any economic benefits from that improvement on their schedules.

      3. Anyone thinking about what a 12m sea-level rise in say 50 years would do to all this port investment?
        Such a rise is not absolutely impossible.

  22. I believe that further restricting the Handel will adversely affect tidal flows in the upper harbour. I don’t know who is responsible for checking this or if the research has already been done, I haven’t found it. The reduced tidal flushing will further increase mangrove spread and silt deposit.
    What are the alternatives to POA proposal?
    Expand over Mechanics Bay?
    Expand some operations into the FirthofThames? This is shallow and would involve a lot of dredging altering existing tidal flows and would involve a lot of research and then duplicating infrastructure. The means of moving the goods to and from any alternative needs to be considered.
    Make better use of the space available! As with the roads occupation of road or wharf space needs to increase the longer it is occupied.
    The. MAF and border security capacity needs to be increased so that our border/bio security takes place promptly as close as possible to the landing point. Central Govt has to ensure it’s not responsible for the wharf congestion. Those responsible for leaving goods on the wharf needs to pay an increased wharfage the longer it remains.
    The problems arrisig from to many ships wanting berets at the same time needs to be handled in a similar fashion to aircraft at AIA. Slots are paiid for at differential rates according to demand. The same applies for cruise ships. Developing cruise terminals for a low occupancy rate doesn’t make sense.

    1. “I believe that further restricting the Handel will adversely affect tidal flows in the upper harbour.”

      I guess it depends on how loudly you play it.

      1. “The problems arrisig from to many ships wanting berets at the same time needs to be handled in a similar fashion to aircraft at AIA”

        Still – a good problem to have if you’re a hatter.

  23. I am not sure I agree with the analysis. Surely the question is – is the port worth more to its shareholder as a going concern or as a piece of real estate. i.e. the proper comparison is the value of the $66m in dividends vs the value of the land. Based on your assumed numbers, the costs become about one tenth and the benefits are similar. In which case it becomes a no brainer. If you want to start accounting for private costs and benefits to third parties (i.e. the freight costs) you would need to look at the private costs and benefits of redeveloping the port.

    However, one thing jumps out based on your numbers. The shareholder is getting a very poor return on the underlying value of the port asset. But at the same time, they are leaving a huge amount of money on the table ($580million). Therefore they should be increasing their prices.

    However it is my understanding that the POT is very competitive and has been able to steal large chunks of business off the POA, and the POA would struggle to compete if it significantly increased its charges. So I think your numbers are wrong.

    1. A port is a port, same as a hospital is a hospital, and as efficient as either can be they both offer poor ROI on the rapidly increasing values of the land they occupy. And that is why in most cases the actual value of the land is fairly irrelevant. It is the service that both provides that determines their value. Sure the land may be worth billions, but factor a return based on those sorts of figures and both would go bust. No more port, no more hospital. Called a necessary evil. Life. So there is no point worrying about the paper values for either. That is why the improvements (building values etc) are the figures most often used to determine practical commercial returns. The land was only effectively worth what it cost when each service was started – initial cost.

      1. This position doesn’t make sense. Port companies aren’t public infrastructure providers – they’re private businesses that charge customers for the privilege of using them. (POA is owned by the council, but other port companies aren’t.) If a warehousing company has to pay the full cost of the land that it uses, why shouldn’t a port have to do so?

        Maybe you think that we should run our economy inefficiently by ignoring the true cost of inputs to production, but pretty much every economist in existence would disagree.

      2. “A port is a port, same as a hospital is a hospital, and as efficient as either can be they both offer poor ROI on the rapidly increasing values of the land they occupy. And that is why in most cases the actual value of the land is fairly irrelevant”

        With respect, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. The value of the land vs the return from the current use is EXACTLY the comparison that is made that determines whether sites get redeveloped. Up the road from my house was a building occupied by a dance studio. It has just been bowled for apartments. The dance studio was a dance studio as much as a port is a port. It got bowled because the underlying value of the land was such that there was a better use for the land. (What I just wrote is a bit backwards – the better use for the land was the reason for the high land price, not the other way around. But the land price is the signal). A port is no different. If the port was of such value to its customers, it would be able to raise prices in line with the value of the real estate and get a good ROI. If it can’t raise prices then it isn’t of the value you think it is.

        1. What you say is technically correct re the dance studio. And to be fair if someone offered me over the odds for the land at the back of my section then it would no longer be lawn – it would be sold. However, in so much as I can now buy another bit of land somewhere else and build a new house it doesn’t necessarily mean things would be so easy for moving a port. The many technical, political and emotional difficulties involved are detailed throughout this blog. I humbly suggest not too many people would get excited if I built a new house, but a new port??? It would never get off the drawing board. The Council and central Government are only too well aware of that. And that is why, regardless of the ‘value’ of the land it will probably stay exactly where it is. It’s land value will continue to increase (which is pretty irrevelant unless it were to be actually cut up and sold) and economists will keep scratching their heads. Life and commonsense.

        2. Riccardo, the restrictions around building a new house/ port are implicitly accounted for in the analysis. If nowhere else is capable of handling the business that would otherwise go to the port, then the port will be able to raise its prices. The limit on the port getting a better return is the competition.

        3. Not exactly Matt. If I read you right, that is. The value of the land underlying the POA is of no consequence to MOL or Maersk or OOCL or any other oceanic shipper. All they care about is the port fee and how fast the ship gets turned around. Those are the costs they pass on to their customers. They won’t appreciate a higher fee because the land is theoretically worth more, and won’t be offered a lower fee if the land is worth less because the basis of the land isn’t factored into port fees. (Analysis of reuse does, of course, consider land value front and center.)

          I say theoretically worth more because it isn’t worth anything until someone wants to buy it. My car is “worth” $12,000 (I hope) but if no one wants to buy it, and I don’t want to sell it, that’s immaterial. Literally and figuratively. That’s why land value does nothing for the port’s financial condition.

        4. Well said Steve. Nothing is worth anything until a seller and buyer are lined up. Merchants do not pay for goods based on the piece of land they are parked on. If so, a similar car would have differing values depending on which car yard you bought it from, or a newspaper retailer location etc.

        5. Hi Steve,

          The shippers wont care about the land value, but that is beside the point. POA can set their own prices. If the market won’t bear prices high enough to get a reasonable ROI, the logical thing (for the port owner) is to sell/redevelop.

    2. Could I summarise your comment to “The shareholder is getting a poor return on the assets of the port but it can’t raise prices because it wouldn’t be competitive?” That doesn’t sound like a winning formula.

      1. That is essentially my point, assuming the value is something like that given. Not sure if it is or not. Hence the argument for closing the port is strengthened.

      2. Is the shareholder (Council) getting a poor return? If so (and I do not know the exact % ROI) then it’s a service that saves money elsewhere. It certainly employs a lot of people who spend their incomes in Auckland. If the port shut shop tomorrow it would cost the Council way more in roading congestion, etc, so the returns for infrastructure entities are often found in other places than the immediate balance sheet. Just like hospitals and schools core infrastructure items like ports and libraries and roads may not be runaway shareholder successes, but we would struggle if they were all shut down purely for such financial reasons.

        1. It doesn’t employ lots of people. Their website says that Ports of Auckland employ 419 staff. That’s a couple of floors of an office building, and less than half of a percent of the CBD workforce.

    3. “Surely the question is – is the port worth more to its shareholder as a going concern or as a piece of real estate”

      That’s certainly the question that POA must ask itself. Other ports – e.g. Centreport in Wellington – have certainly taken advantage of productivity improvements or reductions in freight volumes to get into the property development game. However, the question for society to ask must take into account broader costs and benefits.

      That being said, you raise a fair point about the freight costs. POT’s operation of Metroport does constrain POA from raising prices, which may suggest that land transport costs are not _that_ high. (Or, alternatively, if POA tried to jack up the prices by $600 businesses would relocate out of Auckland.) It’s hard to know what’s really going on in this market. My (unproven) suspicion is that POT is able to move containers from Auckland to Tauranga at a relatively low marginal cost due to the fact that there’s an oversupply of empty containers in Auckland that would need to be moved anyway. But that wouldn’t necessarily remain true if we had to move an additional 800,000 boxes!

      1. So what you are saying in essence is that POT’s Metroport is effectively being subsidised in Auckland (and thus reducing margins POAL can make on its operations) by the fact that it can get cheap movement of containers.
        So either KR or the users of containers are paying POT to eat POAL’s lunch.

        And isn’t this the same argument we make against the road freight industry – that they don’t pay their full way because of the subsidies in road versus rail freight.
        And thus are being subsidised and therefore don’t allow the likes of POAL and KR to operate on a level playing field.

        Something stinks. If POT can get freight into Auckland cost competiviely over POAL when POAL is right here already, then maybe POT should get POALs business.

        Of course its not the containers that cause the problems on the wharves but all those damn cars, and they are the elephant in the room.

        1. Again, I don’t have any data on the topic, just a few competing hypotheses. Please interpret with a grain of salt. The hypothesis I mentioned above doesn’t require anyone to be providing a subsidy. Rather, POT is just exploiting a kink in the supply curve – i.e. a situation in which the marginal cost to ship another full container is relatively low.

        2. Can anyone present some facts re the cars? ‘Cars’ is used emotively, but what are the facts? Quantify the issue please. And if the ‘cars’ are destined for Auckland consumption, just like any other item of freight the logical disembarkment is Auckland.

        3. The disembarkation of cars is not the problem, the storing of them there on prime water front land once they have is.
          Particularly as cars cannot be stacked up like containers can. Which is why even though POAL moves 4 times as many containers as cars, they don’t run out of space on the wharves for them.
          Even though they trans-ship as many containers as they import cars (so they stay on the wharves until they are transhipped)

          The above post said 207,000 cars were imported.
          From previous posts on the subject a large number like 80% of those are “processed” in Auckland (south Auckland mainly).
          Whether they all then stay in Auckland after that or go elsewhere is a little vague.

          If we import cars they have to come via some port. But maybe not Auckland? Or maybe not keeping them on port land longer than needed?

          That is what the argument is about and is the real reason why POAL wants to expand into the harbour. They gussy it up by saying ships are getting longer (as are cruise ships).

          But they are really saying each bigger car carrier carries way more cars than we can store in a single layer at one time – especially when two or more car carriers arrive at once.

          But its only a problem if we continue with the status quo.

        4. I’m guessing 207,000 would be per annum? – Is that an even flow, like daily, weekly or monthly? Is there a short period (one boat per month/week) when a lot of space is required or is it on a fairly even even flow? And to be honest, could any other port / roading / rail cope with this volume if cars were not imported via Auckland? Regardless I guess the port is making it’s need for expansion based on this and other types of freight and the future demand must make economic sense to build the extensions. Just googled Wikipedia . Wikipedia says the impediment to moving these cars off the port faster is the MAF inspection timeframe. So maybe we could look at that too and do it somewhere else?

        5. I do not know – that is why I am asking. I do know the volumes of cars are now higher than the Wikipedia note. (207k vs 166k). I can’t find the MAF/MPI answer yet.

        6. The impediment with the cars is that a ship unloads thousands of units in a couple hours onto the wharf, but the capacity of the car carrying industry (i.e car transporter trucks) takes days to clear them to south Auckland for processing. The car carriers don’t have a fleet of thousands of transport trucks to move a ship load in one hit, the only way it is economic for them is to shuttle back and forth for days taking a dozen cars at a time. Ergo most of Bledisloe wharf gets used as an open parking lot waiting for the landslide transport to clear the backlog. Sad fact is it is cheaper for the port to just landfill the harbour for more parking space than do anything else.

        7. Well the ship might unload thousands at one go, but the evidence is in and it shows that most of them are not Auckland bound:

          The latest AT Board report “pack” of documents has the monthly traffic indicators which says this about Car registrations:

          “Auckland Car Registrations – Cars first registered to an Auckland postal code. There were 8,304 car registrations in February 2015 12.7% higher than last February. The 12 month rolling average was 21% higher than a
          year ago, reflecting a strong recovery in vehicle sales activity as economic conditions have improved”

          See Page 6 of this PDF https://at.govt.nz/media/1043964/Item-11-2-Monthly-Indicators-Report.pdf

          As first registered captures both Jap imports and new car imports, and Feb 15 is the current highest its ever been since at least 2004.
          Then you’d calculate that a *maximum* of 99,648 cars imported in the last 12 months were first registered in Auckland.
          The imported volume is more than double that, so over 50% of the cars imported via POAL wharves never stay in Auckland long enough to be registered to an Auckland postcode/address.

          And note: the Feb 15 number is a peak, so the actual volumes of Auckland registered cars over the past 12 months will be even lower than that 50% figure.
          I just took the peak number and multiplied it by 12. But it is also therefore a reasonable projection of the amount of Auckland bound cars coming in the next 12-24 months as well.

          So tell me again why are we gearing up for more wharves to store the importation of more cars, when at least half of them are not actually Auckland bound?
          Lets simply have those 50% (or 100%) landed elsewhere. Or have the port geared up to get the cars off the wharf a lot more quickly than they are now.

        8. Yes surely the medium term answer must be the freight line and cars: Sorted out to handle cars so you can get them off big time fast overnight.

      2. If you are right on that, then the Port should up its prices, lose a little volume until the oversupply dried up, but retain a higher value smaller volume operation. That points strongly to expansion being the wrong move!

        Regarding the POA itself choosing to divest its land, I think that might be a princpal/agent type problem. The port organisation is all about being a port, and the managers would not really win out of opting to wind themselves up. It would need to come from the council as the shareholder.

        1. “Regarding the POA itself choosing to divest its land, I think that might be a princpal/agent type problem”

          They could start by selling the land the own that is no longer related directly to port operations, which is a sizable holding.

        2. Please quantify the non productive land holdings and the plans the port does / doesn’t have for them. There’s a lot of posturing on this blog, but respectfully to debate issues raised we need facts.

        3. Which your posts are lacking in, referenced facts that is, not one you ‘know to be true’ or similar.

        4. I do not know of POA land holdings that are productive vs non productive that is why I am asking for clarification so that we are discussing something real.

  24. If the biggest problem is the cars taking up room, then the answer is surely to drive the cars away quicker? Where are the car yards all these damn cars need to go to? They’re not all sold in Wiri are they? Turners and GVI are both in Ellerslie, and others are up in Barrys Point Road. Put the onus on those guys to find their own parking spaces. Why should POAL have to shoulder the cost of storing the cars at all?

  25. May I ask why you regard the rail cost from Tauranga to Auckland as an additional cost? You need to offset that transport component against the lower port fees and logistics charges at POT (POA is more expensive to use). This is why POT are able to compete effectively with POA for Auckland cargo in the first place, with their rail operation. The concept of using Tauranga for Auckland imports/exports is already a reality. It just needs to be used more.

      1. Peter, your analysis does not take into account the business strategy of the Port of Tauranga.
        The POT depot is (most likely) being subsidised by them, as it can add container volume and and it is an incentive for PoT to attract vessel calls – one call and we can deliver your ‘Auckland bound cargo’. I doubt that PoT wants the car carriers calling there.
        PoT is a publicly listed company so they can invest for competitive opportunities – they own a sizeable chunk of North Port at Marsden Point.
        PoT has PoA surrounded and the Auckland Council should recognise this – the Council should privatise the PoA (use the capital for new assets such as the CRL).
        Private owners will sort out the wharf storage problems faster than a Council owned organisation can – the PoA leave the cars there to claim to the Council they need more room. The PoA offers Fonterra free container storage to attract their shipping I understand.
        I suggest that they sell half the operating PoA to Tauranga and then let them run the cutter. My guess is they will do a better job than present management.

        1. This is just an assumption, but to me it would make sense that the cars are delivered to POA, as most of them would be heading for car lots in Auckland, and Fonterra ship their goods out of POT, as most of the dairy products would come out of Waikato/Taranaki. Just throwing it out there.

        2. Don I agree. I was always against port privatisation as I assumed, wrongly it turns out, that full ownership would give the city and its people control over how this critical asset is run. Particularly on vital issues like any further encroachment into the harbour. I would rather now see us sell it, but not the land, lease the land, and regulate it properly without that conflict of interest.

          Furthermore a co-ordinated ports strategy between Pot and PoAL would serve the country better, and PoT look like a way sharper outfit than PoAL who put all their energy into vast distractions like fighting their employees and huge spin campaigns to carry out unimaginative and destructive harbour filling.

          I guess the question remains how much has competition between PoT and PoAL driven costs down for exporters and increased efficiencies, if at all?

        3. Patrick, there is no disagreement with your analysis. You and me are now one the same page.
          Get Len Brown to agree and we will see real change.

        4. Yup; never let go of waterfront land. All sales to date of publicly reclaimed land have been a huge mistake and a criminal loss to the wealth and prosperity of the city. Leasehold is the smart way to maximise use and retain kaitiaki for future generations [guardianship].

        5. I would prefer that the council own the port and lease it to POAL to operate.

      2. If you read the study you will in fact find that from an infrastructure cost point of view, scenario 1 (the current status quo) is in fact the lowest cost option with 10 container ports supplying what will become “small/old” container ships. The report makes the comment that although there is a 10% cost reduction each time the ship class steps up, it is likely the shipping companies will retain the savings, not exporters.

        From a purely transport focused cost analysis it would appear to be that the “best” solution might be to rely on “small/old” second hand container ships (low cost third world crews), to do a coastal “main trunk” operating between main ports along NZ’s eastern sea-board to and from hubs either in Australia, or Singapore. The question then is – are exporters happy for this to be the future? Our neighbours in Polynesia have always made do with smaller/cheaper lower CAPEX ports, cheaper lower CAPEX ships, and presumably higher OPEX shipping including trans-shipping elsewhere.

        Or, would exporters (and NZ taxpayers/ratepayers) be willing to pay for infrastructure upgrades to provide a better quality export shipping service? Are we willing to pay for the enhanced infrastructure within NZ to get those fewer ports and bigger ships…… or indeed fund sufficient CAPEX to sustainably retain existing infrastructure such as rail. Auckland, is tied up in all of this. Scenario 3 which appears to be implicitly considered to be a good compromise relies on 2 export hubs in the North Island and 2 in the south.

  26. 1) Cost of a multistorey car park (2 levels + roof) on the existing wharf?

    2) Timeline until most cars can autonomously drive themselves from the boat into a multi-storey carpark or offline storage facility? 10 years? How does that compare with timeframe for setting up a new facility at Marsden?

      1. Fully autonomous cars are a long way away, yes. Volvo’s 2017 XC70 will have “self parking” abilities..which is good enough for us!

    1. Well for a multi-storey park n ride its $10K per park to provide something similar. So can’t see why it would be less if built at the port.

      See, if they were containerised, we could stack them 7 high for bugger-all per car.

  27. Marsden Point is the answer. 1. build the link from oakleigh to marsden point. 2. upgrade the rail axle loadings.(bridges in particular). 3. Rebuild or deviate the Makarau tunnel. 4. lower the track bed floor on the other 4 tunnels that are required to do so. 5. run as many freight services between the hours of 2100- 0530 from Westfield – Swanson with 2 return services mid day. Additionally to this, more locomotives and rolling stock. Also the signalling system will most likely need upgrading on the NAL for safety reasons.

    1. Agree NAL should be upgraded and not suffer the ‘passive demolition’ it is currently, however, there still remains the problem of AT/KR conflicts of the urban NAL/Western Line. When do the freighters run through the city as we head to 10 minute+ frequencies and longer operating hours for urban passenger services? At night?

      1. It is an expensive answer. But over a period of time(assuming 40 years for rail) it works out the cheapern option than roading by a great deal. Patrick, yes, most services would have to run at night between the hours of something like 2030hrs-0530hrs. And possibly one train each direction twice during the day betwen the hours of 1030hrs-1400hrs.

        Even then, that only gives approximately 14 trains a day (7 each way)on a tight program, and an upgrade line. Current loading restrictions on the NAL are about 1140tonnes on a southbound train. With auto couplers I wouldn’t be surprised that could be increased to 1500 tonnes per train, which would basically match the current metro port program Southdown-Tauranga. Only problem there is, including the current customers, whom I believe already want to increase their tonnages of the route, except KR can’t provide the wagons or locomotives to do so…. Even more upgrading would be required – referring here to more crossing loops. Additionally, signalling would have to be installed for safe working of movements, as well as full radio coverage which isn’t currently provided.

  28. Expand Port at Onehunga, complete planned canal between harbours along Portage Road (the land has even be designated for this until recently)
    Ships from Australia berth at Onehunga and then carry on through the canal, around Coromandel and down to Tauranga. (Or vice-versa)
    Additional gains from tourism with canal.
    Turn POA land on waterfront into cruise ship piers and public space.

    1. The west coast is a rough coastline for shipping. Is it actually possible to take such big ships into Onehunga?

  29. Interesting about the canal, was wondering if possible….since this discussion I’ve read quite a bit up on the ports and shipping in NZ etc, but the water so shallow either side, ecological reasons, dangerous habour entrance on that side etc etc, think Tauranga & reconfigured Auckland and amping up the inland Wiri port (regarding the rail side aspect especially, as they are partly doing anyway) is the answer. Onehunga…” is used mostly for coastal reshipment within New Zealand,[2] such as for bringing in cement from Westport.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ports_of_Auckland#Port_of_Onehunga

  30. I imagine if smaller ship can get into Onehunga with the rough coastline, larger ships would find it even easier.
    There would of course need to be extensive dredging and perhaps a breakwater created but all in all, the waterfront land POA currently use is worth so much, the gain on the sale would go a long way towards a redevelopment of Onehunga.
    I think all that is really needed is the intent, I don’t think there is any engineering or technological barriers to making it happen.
    Additionally, there would be less overall impact on city roads as Auckland’s industrial land is all at Onehunga/Penrose etc..so it’s a better future proofed, scalable option for Auckland.

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