Auckland Transport have announced new train timetables that will come in to effect on 8 December and in my view they represent what could be a significant change in focus for how rail is run in Auckland. Many of the changes have hinted at over the last few months in the AT board meetings and have been talked about for years so aren’t a major surprise however it’s great to finally see them start to be implemented. The new timetables are here
Here are the key changes.
Eastern Line
- Increased capacity including double electric trains (six cars) at peak times.
- A quicker journey time between Manukau and Britomart.
- All services heading south terminate at Manukau, customers will need to transfer to the Southern Line if they want to travel to stations south of Puhinui.
- More frequent services for Manukau: six trains an hour during peak, three trains each hour during the day and a half-hourly service at night and on the weekend.
Onehunga Line
- Half-hourly service all day/every day including extended Friday night and weekend hours.
Southern Line
- All services will go through Newmarket so passengers south of Puhinui will need to transfer to the Eastern Line if they want to go to Sylvia Park, Panmure, Glen Innes, Meadowbank or Orakei.
- The Southern Line is next to get electric trains in early 2015.
Pukekohe
- There will be an additional evening service leaving Britomart at 8.58pm and arriving in Pukekohe at 10.07pm.
- New hourly weekend services to Papakura to connect to trains to Britomart.
Western Line
- Extra half-hourly services on Friday night between 10pm and 12.30am.
- All weekend services will now run half-hourly but will terminate at Swanson, a new hourly scheduled bus service will operate between Swanson station and Waitakere.
To me what makes these timetables changes so important is that they seem to take a new approach to how the timetable is put together. Up to now the timetables put together by AT and its predecessor have had a very kludgy feel to them. By that I mean it seems as though the foundation of the timetable was the same from when rail was hardly used and AT then just kept piling on services wherever they could fit them – including having to fit them around freight trains. An example of this is below with services on the eastern and southern line heading to the same destination leaving 5 minutes apart then having a 14 minute gap.
While the old timetable was a kludge, it feels like with this change AT have taken the opportunity to rebuild the timetable from scratch and in doing so it will result in a far superior customer experience. That can only be good for ongoing patronage growth. There are a few significant changes worth highlighting – note: these primarily only apply to the Southern and Eastern lines.
Firstly as had been mentioned in the board reports AT have really simplified the service patterns on the network. No longer will someone going from Britomart to Middlemore have the option of a service to
- Manukau via Glen Innes
- Papakura via Glen Innes
- Pukekohe via Glen Innes
- Papakura via Newmarket
- Pukekohe via Newmarket
Now it’s just an Eastern Line or Southern line train. That’s much simpler and in my opinion considerably better from a customer perspective.
Secondly it seems that now AT have built the timetable around the idea of having 10 minute frequencies all day and then dropped services when they’ve wanted to reduce frequency off peak or in the evenings. You can see this most clearly below where on the eastern line timetable (highlighted in red below) between 9am and 4pm every second service has been dropped – the same thing can be seen on the southern line.
There are a couple of reasons why this change is so important. Firstly the clock face times make it so much simpler and easier for customers to know when a train will be at their station. Secondly the Regional Public Transport Plan (RPTP) that AT adopted last year says that the intention is for the three main lines to run at 10 minute frequencies during the day and 15 minute frequencies during the evening. For the Southern and Eastern lines to get from this new timetable to that level is simply a case of adding in the missing services without AT needing to rejig everything else.
The third major change is that AT have moved to a minimum frequency across the electrified network (Swanson to Papakura) and across the week of a train every 30 minutes. While most services across the network were already at that level this change primarily impacts evening and weekend services making them much more usable. The current situation is absurd with trains only hourly in the weekend evenings making it all but impossible to use PT, say if going to meet up with friends in town on a Saturday night. It also fixes one of the odd little quirks in the timetable that saw a few trains on the Western line terminate at Henderson which saw me on more than one occasion with a longer walk home.
Lastly we’re finally seeing some time savings from the electric trains. Services from Manukau currently take 42 minutes to reach Britomart however with this new timetable will see EMUs exclusively on the eastern line, travel times are now 4-6 minutes quicker. That’s might not sound like much but it’s a 10-14% saving. Presumably other lines will be able to see savings once they too are all (or mostly) served by electric trains.
I guess for me the only real disappointment with this change is that the western line is still stuck at the same 15 minute peak frequency it’s had since at least 2008. While the trains servicing the line are now larger, those too are at capacity. It’s especially annoying as it was promised 10 minute frequencies would be delivered once double tracking was complete in 2010.
Still putting that one point the side, overall I think this is perhaps the most significant change to the timetable in many many years. It seems the first stage of what will eventually be a mature and high frequency timetable. As part of its press release, AT say patronage is currently at 12.1 million trips (an increase on Septembers 11.9 million trips to the end of September. Rail is growing at 17% and with the electric trains plus these changes I expect that kind of growth will continue for some time yet.
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Yeah this is fantastic – a real legible Metro-style line-identified format. With turn-up-and-go frequencies across much of the network. Especially where they overlap; so the mid section of the Southern gets 5 min frequencies for trips to Britomart which is still the most significant destination by a big distance.
Let’s hope they can run it smoothly, especially with increasing numbers of freighters to contend with too. It’s still 18 trains per hour into Britomart, so we assume when the Western Line gets its EMUs late next year that line will go up to 6 tph and Britomart will be full; running 6thp on the three main lines plus 2tph from Onehunga. Then it’ll be a question of how well this tight little system can run with growing demand until the CRL is open.
Since opening the new Panmure Station numbers there have doubled. Similar situation at Manukau; The same or better can be expected at Otahuhu once the new Station is open there too.
Onward towards a real Rapid Transit Network.
“Yeah this is fantastic – a real legible Metro-style line-identified format.”
The new one is the same as the old one isn’t it? I don’t see any difference to the layout. It would actually be more easy to read if a standard timetable format were adopted, which has stations at left, with vertical times from top to bottom. The MAXX/AT timetables have always reversed this arrangement for some reason, making it difficult to read.
I think Patrick is referring to the point of having individual lines rather than multiple service patterns per line.
As for the actual timetables I personally find the layout much easier to read the way it is. I hate looking at timetables with the stations on the vertical axis.
Why show a letter B for Waitakere on Saturdays? Why not integrate the bus and train timetable, since they still have a column for Waitakere? Just show the times in a different colour.
Mind you, I suspect AT will cancel it within a year, leaving Waitakere without any PT service at all. Since they are cancelling rural buses to Oratia and Waiatarua, I can’t imagine they are genuinely interested in keeping a 4km rural bus running with empty seats until past midnight, as planned. Even busy city routes don’t have buses much later than 10pm. It’ll be a token gesture that they’ll take away next year.
So Pukekohe is a shuttle only on weekends? Or am I reading it wrong? How will that work when EMUs introduced to Papakura on weekdays? Coast the last 10 KMs?
My guess is they’re applying the shuttle concept on weekends first to iron out any kinks, so that it’s working smoothly by the time they replace direct diesels to Pukekohe with the shuttles.
It’s also a shame that passengers from Puhinui, Papatoetoe, Middlemore, Otahuhu and Westfield, travelling to Britomart, have had half the trains available to them removed from the timetable, giving them a very incomplete picture of the trains running through those stations.
Onehunga remains awkward to read as well, as the branch is shown on the same white background as the Southern Line, whereas standard timetable layout would have the branch shaded a different colour.
All up, in terms of timetable layout, a big thumbs down. The same old backward layout, but made even more difficult to read by splitting half the southern station services onto different timetables, despite being the same stations on the same line.
Perhaps you would prefer we return to the 1993 timetable and service levels?
There are just too many trains to have an all-in-one Southern timetable now – it’d be just unreadable, tiny text, long lines, the current one is terrible to read, a combined new one would be even worse.
For Puhinui-Westfield, trains are so frequent that a timetable almost doesn’t matter. Besides, while a timetable is the traditional way of finding out when your train is, it’s by no means the only one – there’s the at-station displays, and also smartphone apps (TransitTimes, Google Maps etc) and the AT app (the current one is crap but I understand a much better one is imminent) provide personalised information for what’s coming next, where it’s going, whether it’s on time etc.
I catch the train into town after dropping my daughter off at daycare. I use the app, not a timetable, to see when the next train is, which gives me play time with her instead of sitting at the station waiting. It also lets me see if there’s any delays or cancellations in which case I either adjust when I leave, or walk from the daycare gate in the other direction to catch a (usually slower) bus.
I do the same when visiting the accountant at Ellerslie, or PB Tech in Penrose (although a bugbear there is the times for Penrose platforms 1/2 are listed separately from platform 3, so I look at Ellerslie’s realtime data and mentally subtract 4 mins for each train time) and so on.
And as we move to ten minute frequencies all day, timetable reading will become even less relevant – just turn up and go.
Good to see frequency improvements at last but the transfering concerns me. Passengers travelling from Pukekohe but going to an eastern line station will end up transferring twice both ways once its fully EMU based and that is not attractive or efficient in any circumstances especially in poor weather and at night and at some of those dodgy pkatforms. In fact its a retrograde step that I believe was tried and failed years ago. And I think there is less trains to Papakura off peak as a result though.
Firstly; overwhelming majority of southern line riders are heading to Britomart (unlike on the western), the second most popular destination is Newmarket, neither of these destinations require two transfers. And the increase in frequency is great for both.
Secondly the obvious, and planned, solution to the two transfer issue for those heading from Pukekohe to the five Eastern Line stations from Puke is electrification of the line to Pukekohe, this will happen at some stage, in the meantime Puke riders are getting more services.
These are good decisions. There are always compromises; western line users still have to sit and twiddle their thumbs at Newmarket…. On balance this is an improvement yet is still just a step along the way.
Patrick, you’re ok with spending $130m+ to provide trains to Pukekohe, WHERE THEY ALREADY HAVE TRAINS, yet object to spending a fraction of that to provide services elsewhere where none exist. That same $130m+ could put in place regional commuter trains all the way from Helensville to Hamilton.
Pukekohe itself has been one of the fastest growing station on the network, so it probably deserves more service. Plus there is the small matter that:
1. Considerable greenfields development is planned around an existing rail line where rail services are A) already being run and B) time-competitive with buses/cars (unlike say, Kumeu); and
2. The opportunity for a number of new stations and a strategically important park and ride at Drury (which NIMT crosses SH1).
So basically $130m buys you:
1. An EMU only fleet = significant maintenance/operating cost savings
2. Opportunity to run direct rails service from Pukekohe to the city, possibly as an express stopping only at major stations.
3. Up to 2-3 new stations plus park and ride.
Basically, it seems fairly clear that spending $130m on electrification to Pukekoke would deliver better value for money than running regional trains at the present time.
tbh as someone who travels from the middle of the south; timetables and timetable layout become much less important as frequencies increase. The only reason I’d look these days would be if I needed to travel to Newmarket or transfer to the west given they are less frequent than everything else going to Britomart.
I haven’t used a paper timetable for two years. The Transit app available is far too good.
Much better than the AT app which is really hard to use and won’t let you save stops as favourites.
Didn’t Patrick say something in a tweet in early October that there were a slew of features in the new AT transport App which was then being tested and a “few weeks away” from being released?
So any one know what happened to the rollout or is it like Christmas, still coming?
Sure know the current AT app has long past its used by date for all uses.
It’s still coming, just not able to discuss for now….
“three main lines to run at 10 minute frequencies during the day and 15 minute frequencies during the evening”
So what you’re saying is that the “new service” actually has 1/2 the times dropped anyway?
Or are they going to rebuild it again later?
Personally, with 10 minute frequencies for passengers + freight + lack of grade separation through Takanini, I’m just waiting for the fatalities to start piling up to the point where they decide grade separation is “cost effective”.
Not the only one. The Southern Line timetable looks very vulnerable to the increasing amount of freighters plying that section of the line. Already the Metroports are being stepped up from 12 to 24 services over the next few years, and Port of Auckland want to go to 54 services a week between Wiri and the main port.
As for the three Takanini level crossings? Oh boy…..
I am bit sick of Friday only services though, EMU’s should be cheap enough to run Mon-Thurs late services also even if patronage is a bit less, maybe don’t run as many; but running one at 11ish and 12ish would be good. With the Diesel units I can see why they haven’t in the past, majority of people near the track need to get to sleep those nights and there wont be that many people using them, but EMU’s shouldn’t have this difficulty as they should be cheaper to run and quieter.
EMU’s are about half the energy and maintenance costs to run but they still incur the same staffing costs which is a much larger opex costs. There might also be additional track access charges for running later. Also as far as I’m aware there are a lot of resource issues right now i.e. not enough drivers which impacts how many services could be run.
Overall it is an improvement, but I agree with some of the comments here.
Sunday – Thurs services should at least run to 11:30pm from Britomart. AT, we are a BIG CITY now and some of us have work functions or even dinner in the city and a last train at 10ish pm is poor.
Waitakere services should be extended to Kumeu, not cut back. This issue will be raised for sure, so AT hasn’t yet got away with their plans to chop rail.
+1 to both issues
Jon, a serious question. What would you do if we only had the budget to do one of those? Run all the current lines through till midnight every day, or keep the early finishes but run hourly trains out to Kumeu? Which would you prioritise?
Personally I consider not running the ten minute frequency and not running a long span of service to be as much ‘chopping rail’ as not extending a line.
Nick, stop pretending there are trade-offs involved in delivering public transport. As Geoff and Jon have persuasively (and politely I must add) argued previously, AT have an unlimited budget to deliver hugely expensive rail services here-there-and-everywhere, even if few people use them.
The reason AT have an unlimited budget to provide rail services is because Aucklanders have a huge appetite for higher property rates, while the NZTA is awash with money to spend on public transport because the National Government thinks PT is awesome. So it seems that everyone is happy to invest in rail services that carry less than your average shuttle van, apart from grumpy old utilitarian you.
And it’s not as if there are any existing public transport services in Auckland that are struggling to cope with demand. Oh wait:
http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2014/11/19/more-buses-needed-on-weekends-and-evenings/
Nick – you speak hypothetically to suit your arguement to cut back rail for Aucklanders. Fact of the matter is there are NO late night trains being offered.
that’s precisely the point of his question Jon: You’ve identified two rail service expansions that you want but which are not currently funded, i.e. late-night services and service to Kumeu.
If you had to choose one what would you choose?
And perhaps more interestingly what would you cut to fund them? Getting rid of services on the Onehunga line, for example, might well fund either rail to Kumeu or late-night services.
Sigh… I’m trying to engage you constructively here Jon and all you can do is bluster? Apparently I’m arguing to cut back rail for Aucklanders now…
Liar! Liar!
You’re not constructive you’re a filthy rail hating scum-of-the earth consultant who pretends that public transport planning involves making considered trade-offs between potential infrastructure/service investment options.
The emu’s are cheaper to run so I don’t see an issue with budget for later services. The so called “train curfew” in Auckland annoys many. Sun-Thurs deff needs more evening services.
Jon, serious question, do you have no interest in efficiency of the rail network? What is the sentimental attachment to this one route that means all reason must be abandoned in its evaluation?
Or to answer Nick’s question for you; longer operating hours look like a much high value proposition than a diesel shuttle to Waitakere or Kumeu at this stage.
Actually, as has been pointed out to you Nick R by someone within the rail industry in the last battle we had over this here, the costs are so small to extend services to the EXISTING Huapai station that it makes your gestures of high costs of rail look, well, rather poorly.
I understand a handful of you are passionately for not extending rail to the pre 2013 plan of Kumeu. However, since then the massive SHA has been announced for Kumeu, right on the backside of the existing Huapai station. What is also a worry, those faceless bureucrats in AT have SOLD the land which had been planned for a train park and ride at Huapai to a developer. Thanks AT for not asking the community and doing that on the down low!
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Just like you Nick and Patrick, I’m very passionate about public transport. I catch buses and trains around 3 days of my working week. However, unlike you, some of us can see the sense ARTA had in planning for rail to Kumeu. Now with the SHA’s and the poor North Western jammed up motorway, rail is the best option for those people living West who work, live, shop or study in Henderson, Glen Eden, New Lynn or Avondale. You can forget your pet North Western Busway because that won’t be open for 6, 7, 10 years thanks to the current Govt policies on PT.
It would seem to me Nick and Patrick have not visited Kumeu lately to see the huge growth there. I and a growing amount of others will disagree with you.
To end on a quote I like “If you think that something is right just because everyone believes it, then you are not thinking”.
I’m not passionately for anything Jon, I’m completely disinterested in the matter.
Anyway it was a simple hypothetical: would you rather extend the coverage of the network or the hours of operation, if you had to pick one first? Feel free to actually answer or engage in the discussion this time, but spare us another straw man rant.
Jon costs have to be evaluated in the context of benefit, the cost of running an virtual empty shuttle service may be low, but so are the benefits.
I still don’t get it; why obsess so on this one service? Especially on a thread where the news is of better network design, more investment in more services across the city and rising ridership because of these very policies?
Edited – Geoff questioning peoples professional integrity is not on. Especially seeing as you have made formal complaints about the same issue which have been investigated. Just because you don’t agree with the outcome, it doesn’t give you the right to personally attack people. If continue to do this you will be banned – Matt
Jon and Geoff –
My perspective on transport funding is fairly simple and has been consistently articulated previously: I believe that transport projects with the highest BCRs should be funded first. Like Nicolas, I’m relatively disinterested in which projects get funding, provided they deliver value-for-money.
Scale of project is not particularly relevant and I do resist your suggestion that we should not object to projects that deliver poor value-for-money simply because they are not especially expensive. All of us can come up with a few PT projects that cost not many millions – so by what logic should we decide between our pet projects?
You could spend a lot of time quantifying the factors Geoff lists above and it is unlikely to change the BCR for Kumeu rail by much at this stage, because the levels of usage are quite low. You’re also incorrect about the assumptions in the report; from my reading it didn’t assume zero diesel fleet.
Stu, the difference between your view and mine is whether or not to fund on current numbers or future numbers.
Pukekohe started out with 20 passengers a day. That does not justify the current 25 trains a day, nor the proposal to electrify. The reason Pukekohe does so well today is because services were provided DESPITE the pre-existing patronage being very low. It took vision and courage to go from 1 train to 4 trains a day back when patronage was very low. The AT of today would never have done it. Neither would they have reopened Onehunga.
PT advocates have a choice – advocate on behalf of users/potential users with vision and courage, or submit to the wishes of the AT board and not rock the boat. I know which approach I’m taking, because history shows it is the only method that has ever successfully delivered.
Jon whenever someone engages with you and asks a serious question why don’t you ever answer it?
Once again, we only have a limited pool of money from which to run services. Yes the government should provide more but that isn’t the reality right now so the question is, how do we spend that money. What’s more valuable way to spend that, on extra 10 minute services or on having lesser frequencies but longer operating times and services to Kumeu?
Put another way, say more funding became available tomorrow and it was only enough to do one thing, what would you choose? would you
a) put on more trains at peak/interpeak (remembering the western line isn’t at 10 minute frequencies yet).
b) extend train services further into the evening
c) put on services to Kumeu
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Matt, advocating for PT services does not mean keeping that advocation within AT’s existing budget. One would need to be co-opted by AT in order to do that. We should be advocating for what the public say they will use.
Most of the things this blog advocates are outside AT’s budget, so why criticize pro-Kumeu rail supporters because they do the same, especially when its on a much smaller scale? It’s small fry by comparison to the mega billions of spending this blog calls for.
Geoff I’m not asking about the current budget. I’m wanting to know if AT were to get more money tomorrow, but not enough to do everything, what should be their priority for how they invest it,
a) more peak/off peak services in the urban area,
b) later services at night
c) services to Kumeu
It’s a question of what order the priorities should be
Hi Geoff. Your latest comments fall afoul of the blog’s User Guidelines in several ways:
Guideline 1: “Treat other members of the community with civility and respect.” Implying that several blog authors are engaged in a conspiracy is neither civil nor respectful.
Guideline 3: “Ad hominem attacks are frowned upon. If you disagree with someone, refute their statements rather before insulting them.” Once again, play the ball, not the man. Implying that several blog authors have failed in their professional responsibilities is not respectful. Nor is it accurate, as the decisions about both Western Line extensions and the NW Busway are made by Auckland Transport on the basis of the evidence.
Guideline 4: “General moaning about the blog and its editorial direction is extremely boring.” Most of your contributions to the comments section are complaints about the fact that blog authors do not advocate for a Kumeu rail extension. You need to find another dead horse to beat.
I suggest that you respond with a retraction of your unfounded criticisms of the blog authors’ professional conduct. If you are unwilling to do so, it will be necessary to suspend your account.
Geoff it would seem on this topic, unless you agree with a couple of people here who incidently agree with AT on the subject of Kumeu rail, well you won’t stand a chance.
We say rail for the growing masses of Kumeu as the SHA and large scale developments are happening there now. They say no, more buses stuck in the terrible traffic on the snarled up North Western Motorway.
The most important factor here is not Matt, Nick or Patrick. Nor is it you nor me, it’s the passengers, the users who live out West. They need to be asked the questions you and I put here about Kumeu rail. I think planners and public transport advocates are great, but seriously the users and potential users need to be asked about Kumeu rail.
Quite frankly we know the so called “consultation” over North West services is a farce as AT have carefully not asked the users about a rail option.
Matt asked why I don’t answer the hypothetical questions put to me here. Simple, if that’s how you guys think then in the early 90’s we would never have bought the ADK’s/ADL’s that rescued rail,because that budget was sewn up with buses and a perverse believe they would be better with greater benefits than the immediate costs for rail. Aren’t we all gratefull today that the ARC team looked beyond those narrow parameters and had a long term vision?
You are welcome to have your hypothetical arguements about “if you have this you can’t have that”. Well, sorry, I don’t buy into them as I see that in the short term Kumeu will grow faster than you can pen your next blog. So I think we should get rail in now. Get the town developed around a small bus-rail hub in Kumeu. Be the advocates for change, not just more of the statis quo, which is what AT want.
I remember many dissing reopening the Onehunga line. So many similar arguements as being put forward by Nick, Matt and Patrick. All which were proven to be so wrong.
Fair enough Jon. So, other than a change of government, how do we get the extra money for Kumeu?
It would be great to see a real rail/cycling community developed like Houten in the Netherlands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houten
But that would take a massive change in direction from this government from seeing all transport as roads. How do we achieve that?
Aucklanders keep saying in surveys and local body elections that they want more PT/cycling. So why is the government ignoring that? What is your plan to change that attitude?
Jon, unfortunately you’re re-writing history to suit your own agenda:
1. The Blog has interviewed the original architect of Auckland’s rail revival, namely Mr Siddles. During this interview he made it clear that the main reason the ARC initially agreed to buy and refurbish the diesel trains was because analysis showed the services were running at more than 100% cost recovery, i.e. were broadly profitable. In no way did this initial decision reflect the wide range of rose-tinted factors you allude to.
2. You refer also to the Onehunga Branch Line. I assisted CBT with benefit-cost analysis of re-opening OBL. Running rail services to Kumeu is not comparable to the OBL: Kumeu will cost about the same and carry far fewer people than the OBL. The transport (and land use) circumstances are completely different.
3. You rave about growth in Kumeu, but this growth has been occurring for some time. And during this time patronage at Waitakere (and Kumeu when services were operating) stagnated or even declined? This suggests the rail services did not suit the travel patterns of the people moving to that area. In the meantime bus patronage in these areas has, from what I understand, been growing. Post-electrification rail’s attractiveness in this area arguably declines, because passengers beyond Swanson will have to transfer. Resolving this transfer issue will require changes to the tunnel between Swanson and Waitakere, which will cost megabucks.
I’m going to ask you and Geoff to again not raise this topic in this forum. We’ve arguably given the topic more time in the sun than it deserves, as well as tolerated you randomly derailing threads, personally attacking us, and cynically trying to undermine our professional credibility. That’s just not cricket, so I’d like to politely ask you to bugger off.
“And during this time patronage at Waitakere (and Kumeu when services were operating) stagnated or even declined? This suggests the rail services did not suit the travel patterns of the people moving to that area”
Waitakere hasn’t so much declined, as reluctantly moved to Swanson. Too many cancelled trains at Waitakere have made it notoriously unreliable. The Kumeu service suffered from poor timing, not poor route. The fact that it started out with 15-20 a day from Kumeu (comparable to Pukekohe’s start of around 20), then declined from there, showed people wanted to give it a go, but were then put off after trying. Like Waitakere, it was poor service, and not from lack of want of service.
That is a huge improvement! Stations after Elleslie to city are pretty much turn up and go
Does anyone comprehend the reasoning for not improving the 15 minute services on the Western Line?
Is Britomart operating at full capacity under this timetable? Are there not enough trains to run more?
Britomart’s capacity is said to be 20-22 tph. This is 18 tph. Presumably with the western line’s EMUs, late next year, it will go to ten minute services [6tph], and therefore Britomart to 20tph, as outlined above in the RPTP.
After that frequencies can only improve off peak, weekends and at night, and presumably will, assuming demand continues to grow. And capacity at the peaks can only grow by running more 6 car sets.
Then it’s a wait for the CRL, hopefully opening in 2021.
The last excuse I heard was they need the Sarawia St level crossing closed before they can do it due to limitations it puts on the network around Newmarket.
Is the problem the level crossing, or is it the short length of single track that all he western line trains and the citybound Onehunga and southern line trains have to share from there to Newmarket?
Despite knowing some of the people adversely affected by the cancellation of Waitakere services, and supporting Jon and Geoff’s proposal for a Waimauku shuttle, I’d still advocate for any extra funding to be prioritised to higher frequencies and/or later services.
AT have decided that the Western should be kept at 4tph due to traffic congestion caused by the level crossings.
Really? If true that is a massively stupid decision and mono-modal obsession to nth degree,
I’m a little confused about why level crossings are a problem, I’ve caught 100s of train services I never remember waiting for level crossings, it’s usually the traffic that gives way, or am I missing something?
Oh wait I see, you mean the congestion on the roads… seriously… 6tph means a train every 5 mins in either direction, that’s not too bad and plus it’s only during peak where congestion is already bad around most western level crossings, wouldn’t make a difference.
Level crossings do have a minimum cycle time however, once they come up they can’t go down again for X many minutes to avoid trapping vehicles on the tracks. So they can indeed force trains to stop and wait at a red signal.
But if they are doing it on the southern line why not the western? The amount of level crossings shouldn’t really make a difference.
Clearly, the answer is to build more roads, get people driving, and get people off the crowded buses and trains and leave seats for those that want to use them.
(sarcasm intended)
Let no one ever, again, say there is no case for PT spend in Auckland, that people won’t use it, that there isn’t the density, its too long and narrow…blah blah blah.
That was meant for the “full buses and trains” thread
This glorious level of sarcasm belongs in _every_ thread.
Only shame is the Western line not moving to 20 minute all day peak. This would have given consistent trains every 10 minutes between Britomart and Newmarket. Are a few times per hour where there is 16 minute gap between trains, not too bad but could be better. Not worried about the long-term track though, I suspect these issues will be sorted within 6 months or so.
Yup; we’re on a journey… hopefully this beds in well, then EMUs on the Southern [except Puke], then EMUs and higher frequencies on the Western.
Poor old western line users, patience required.
This is excellent. Hopefully it remains part of a program of continuous improvement. How many EMUs are in-service now?
24 in service, 7 in commissioning, 31 total in the country thus far
Just wondering, can the speed of journey be further increased? The EMU can run more than 100kmh in theory
Are NZTA going to implement improvement of the signaling system?
The timetable change does include a 4 – 5 minute increase in speed on the Eastern line, all thanks to the EMU’s.
They are already running at 110km/h
110 kmh where? Thought line speed was limited 80-100kmh? What does AT’s access agreement require of KR as regards line speed – 80, 100, 110?
I hope AT also remember to update the 380 timetables. Currently this is timed to meet the train, so with the pre December 8 timetable it was a terrible mess. With Onehunga now going to half hourly 7 days a week, the 380 needs to be updated to match.
The best place to transfer between the 380 and the train is at Papatoetoe. At least six trains per hour most of the
day and trains running north, South and on eastern line when new timetable starts. 380 needs to be every 15 minutes between airport and Papatoetoe. Journey from airport to Onehunga on 380 is torturous.
Yes, the 380 frequency definitely needs to be increased. 30-minute frequency during the day for the only convenient way to use a train on the airport trip is just ridiculous. Both times I’ve caught the train to Papatoetoe in the morning in order to go to the airport I’ve been quite sufficiently fortunate to arrive at Papatoetoe station right in the middle of the service arrivals. 12-15 minute waits both times. In a pretty scungy bus stop, let’s be honest.
I love that it costs me less than $15 for a return journey from Ellerslie to the airport, but sitting on the side of the road in the middle of winter with freezing wind and sheeting rain for 15 minutes is not a pleasant experience.
Well the New Network is coming for the South next year http://greaterakl.wpengine.com/2013/12/09/new-south-auckland-bus-network-confirmed/
The 30: airport/Papatoetoe goes to every 15 mins; a 100% improvement!
I would like to see East/South combined in the same booklet to allow for easier working out of transfers for those to/from south of Puhinui.
+1
Why not just a special booklet for those specific stations rather than a worse version of the unreadable mess that was the previous southern line timetable. AT used to do this for Newmarket to Britomart services and do it on some specific bus services such as Takapuna to Midtown.
Better yet, scrap the individual timetables, and go with a single booklet that covers all lines. What better way to show how the CRL will unlock a larger single network, than to portray it in publications as one single network? Eventually, post-CRL, there will be trains promoted as through-runners, so they will need to combine the Western timetable with either the Southern or Eastern anyway.
As a regular Middlemore station user, it’s my local, it would be very handy to have a special booklet combining all the services at least from Westfield to Puhinui. But again, has AT bothered to ask us, the real live passengers what we want? Sadly, but typically, no!
It will be fun looking through both timetables to figure out what service is when. Not actually making it easier for passengers is it?
If you are going to Britomart, won’t need the timetable. Trains every 5 minutes at peak, 10 minutes all day during the weekday. and every 15 minutes at evenings and weekends. Also times generally repeated all day. So you could memorize the required information in about 2 minutes, and if if you don’t know the worst that could happen is you wait 15 minutes. If on the other hand you needed to go to Manukau or Newmarket then you could look in the relevant timetable.
High frequency means timetables become much less important.
AT should be promoting this high frequency, rather than spending money printing too many timetables. Thats what happens when you transition from a suburban rail system to a metro system, timetables go out the door.
Who uses printed timetables? They’re even more obsolete than phone books! 😉
I invariably use the journey planner, on either my laptop or my smartphone. Even someone on the “el cheapo” $19 plans will have enough data to do that…
There’s other routes that could do with this treatment but don’t have it yet: Great North Road between the city and Point Chev, for example. There’s not even a map good enough to show which services go on the motorway and which go on GNR.
Steve, agreed. This is actually really simple stuff to do, which will instantly enhance public transport as it makes it easier to understand and use. AT need to actually think like real people do.That way they would find out what very small improvements are required to potentially increase PT use.
While I do knock AT, they are also doing well overall. But if we don’t ask them to polish up their act, who will? I am quite concerned we have no elected representatives with any real power on the AT Board now. They would represent the people, the ratepayers of Auckland. ARC had a great forward thinking team since 1991 for public transport, and they were all elected.
That is a good point. However probably not worth AT spending too much time making fancy new maps and timetables as when the new network rolls out this will reduce the ridiculous multiplicity of route numbers.
However timetables less important and stops signs more important. I understand since the west bus changes in September there is a bus regularly at least every 15 minutes along GNR all day and evenings, 7 days a week. This should be advertised, rather than having a big book of of every single little detail.
Really., booklets? I think you mean Apps don’t you?
Actually, now I go looking again, my request has been granted. Wonder if it was added when they simplified the routes earlier in the year? Or did I not think to look in the Western section for central buses?
You mean a booklet for Papakura/Takanini/Te Mahia/Manurewa/Homai to Sylvia Park/Panmure/GI/Meadowbank/Orakei?
This timetable update has some stations on the network with very very good frequencies to the City, even by Australasian and world standards.
Puhinui, Papatoetoe, Middlemore, Otahuhu & Westfield now have 12tph at peak (up from 9tph) so roughly 1 train every 5minutes. They also get 6tph interpeak and 4tph at all other times, which exceeds the frequent network standard. This is virtually turn up and go frequency (if your destination is Britomart), even on nights and weekends.
Penrose, Ellerslie, Greenlane & Remuera also do very nicely – 8tph at peak (up from 5tph), 5tph interpeak and 4tph at all other times. That also is turn up and go for them.
It goes without saying Manukau, Te Papapa & Onehunga are the biggest beneficiaries of the changes. Pukekohe also gets weekend services (finally). It’s nice to see that there is not one part of the timetable that has an hour gap between services (in the main electrified area) so that is another good improvement.
I think what AT should have done was a
1)Eastern Line Timetable
2) Southern Line Timetable (without Onehunga included),
3) Western Line Timetable
4) Onehunga timetable
5) A combined Southern, Eastern & Onehunga timetable.
That covers all of the lines individually and also provides the combined one. I find it odd how they’ve included the Onehunga services in both the Onehunga timetable and the Southern, yet not the Eastern.
But overall, very pleasing.
Anyways, that’s my 2cents worth.
As an Ellerslie to Newmarket person I love the new timetable, but am a bit bothered by the increase in journey times heading into Newmarket.
For example on the Onehunga line, Ellerslie to Newmarket was 8min across the board and that is now being increased to 10min, despite 8min being entirely doable (does it easily most days). In fact the schedule still shows an 8min trip back up the hill in the other direction.
The only reason I can see for this being done is a collision with citybound western line trains (adding a buffer for a slower trip down the hill waiting for the platform to become available).
An increase on the western line to 10min frequencies would probably create too much of a jam with 14tph trying to squeeze through it with 6 of those having a 3-4min stop time in order to reverse. Potentially they’d have to have every second train skip Newmarket to prevent chaos.
Just remember Nick, that the times are all departure, not arrival times, and the bolded times (like Newmarket) are “time keeping” departure times, which means the train will never leave before that time at that station.
[The non bolded times between bolded times are guidelines only so train may arrive a few minutes earlier than listed at interim stations – just pays to note that].
I think you may find that your train will arrive in Newmarket on time like it used to, it just may wait longer at Newmarket for timekeeping purposes, before it carries on.
So you may well find post Dec 8th, that you are out of the station at Newmarket and about your business, quite some time before the train is.
This is very bad news for a lot of people who live South of Puhinui but use an Eastern line stop. Currently they can just get on the next train to go where they want to go, from December they will need to transfer every time. Waiting for transfers really casts a damper on using public transport. Currently I go from Papakura to Orakei which is a long journey but will soon get a lot longer. Fortunately I plan to move closer to the city soon but put yourself in the shoes of those people who will not benefit at all from these adjustments.
This is not ‘very bad news’ at most it is a slight inconvenience for a very small number of users. Transferring from southern to eastern is hardly arduous or time consuming: It simply requires hoping off one very frequent train and waiting on the same platform, under shelter, for an average of 5 minutes for another very frequent one. Many people complete much less convenient and much more delaying transfers everyday on the network; west/south for example is still a long wait with trains on the western only every 20 mins instead of ten as is the case in the south and east.
Yes it would be better if everyone could have such high frequency direct rides to every single conceivable destination anywhere in the city, but of course that isn’t possible. This is a compromise that improves the journeys of the majority and therefore is the best overall outcome.
well said Jason ! I note the local paper mentioned the “improved services” but did not
mention the loss of the eastern line south of Manukau. It will be interesting to see
how those affected feel when it trickles down what has happened. I agree most people are using the via Newmarket
line but there are still a significant number going on the eastern line specifically.
And those people will have a significantly longer trip and a wait – and that will be a
disincentive plus the fact they have to get on and off the train (which for me
is always an issue with a pram, plus at least another under 5 and I know for my Mum with guide dog it is as well).
Part of my concern about it is that the place of transfer Puhinui is not that visible a station,
by that I mean its not that public and its not from my perspective that safe – there
have been issues there in the past from what I see in the paper and I personally don’t feel
that safe waiting around there. Its not at all manned by AT (no security guard or anything
from what I can see) and its at the back of a lot of houses. I don’t like waiting there and I would not let my
children as they get older do it either nor am I happy with my Mum waiting there.
Really if you want people to transfer and feel safer about it – it makes
more sense for Manukau to be the hub – given its in a more public position etc.
But that would mean trains from South of Manukau
stopping at Manukau -which lets face it is never ever going to happen now.
Lets just hope the larger amount of people at Puhinui means less issues or gives AT more
reason to actually man the station with security guards or several staff.
(Of course people are going to say ok bus to Manukau and then catch the train – but
that is not going to appeal to those used to be able to get a direct train to their destination
and it will probably take signifcantly longer too. )
Anyway I read the blog the other day – and let my vision impaired Mum know of the changes –
she liked to catch the train to Sylvia park but she told me when I told her about
the new set-up she said well that puts paid to that – I won’t be doing that again will I ?
ps trying to find article I recall seeing mention of issues in – but can’t ….will post if I find
this wasn’t the one – though related http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9716986/Girl-left-stranded-at-station
JJ you don’t have to change at Puhinui: There’s Papatoetoe, Middlemore, or next year, a brand new station at Otahuhu to change at for exactly the same services.
It is an improved timetable for the majority of users, but there will always be compromises in any upgrade. And there is a very high level of service all day for anyone moving between the southern and eastern lines, and still 50% more that there are for those switching between southern and western, so while it means a change I suggest you try it, you may find it isn’t so hard.
not saying I won’t try it necessarily – but my Mum won’t ……
and for some it is not going to make trips quicker ….
anyway I have decided after much of a life using PT that PT and 2 kids under 5 is just not working so well for me at the moment
and its not going to get easier so
maybe it won’t be an issue for me for a few years yet and things will be changed by then
ohh and to clarify what a “little change” introducing a transfer might mean in a practical sense for me
IF I was going to got to say Sylvia park on the eastern line or to another destination on that line
I would be doing it on my day off to take the kids on an outing (say to see Santa or family or some event etc) and I would have 3 – 4 kids (3 if in school hours, 4 in the holidays – 1, 2, 3 & over 5 -not all mine) (as opposed to a peak hour work commute where I have just 2 under 5’s) so its a matter of on train with pram while safely holding hands of 2 & 3
and off in the same manner (off is often tricker) 1 will scream (carseats, prams, buses trains not liked), 2 & 3 will fidget
at the least ………….over 5 will be ok and possibly helpful or cringe a lot !
add a transfer in there (anywhere of the stations you suggested) and thats another off and on and an entertain them during and even at a short wait – its a long time (ohh an eternity) in toddler years …while 2 loves trains, 3 is variable & 1 certainly does not ….so then you start to wonder if going on said outing is now truely worth it ……add to that possibly also helping Mum and guide dog with steps (should she wish to come) and really that “little change” is enough to tip the scales into the maybe I won’t bother category – not that it is a big deal for me as I don’t go east a lot – but it does make me re-think bothering – I am not so much scared of change as you imply but simply perhaps too tired to add another layer of complexity
I am hoping that the longer term plan is to resume Papakura to Eastern Line services at some point in the not too distant future. Inconvenience is inconvenience, especially in bad weather and particularly for the young and old. Even a single train at rough half hour intervals would probably work.
Hi, why do we need that timetable? Its the most disgusting service quality. trains never come in time. If you come early, train dalay. If you are in time, train has gone 3 min ago. It seems to me that AT staff does not respect neither their customers no themself.