I think this can only really be described as a bit of an own goal by Auckland Transport.
So you are a regular train user, you’ve seen all of the promotional material about the new AT HOP card that can be used on the trains from 27th October so you go and buy one as soon as they go on sale. As a regular user you even decide to put a monthly pass on it. Like me you you probably find the card very easy to use and welcome train tickets finally being brought out of the stone age and up to a 20th century standard (lets not push for the 21st century just yet). A week after the launch of the card you are meeting some friends in town and decide that you will use PT to get there as it allows you to have a few drinks and not have to worry about driving drunk, so far so good. However due to upgrade works for electrification the network is shut down meaning trains aren’t running on the line you use and rail replacement buses are being run instead. It is at this point things start to become unstuck leaving you frustrated and shaking your head at AT.
You see it isn’t that the network is shut down or that you have to catch a rail bus that is the problem (although they often aren’t a great experience due to them taking an incredibly indirect route to keep next to the rail line). It is this sign that current can be found on rail platforms and on the trains themselves.
You can just see it at the bottom so here it is a bit closer.
So after just rolling out the new AT HOP cards, people can’t use them on the service that is put in to replace the train that would normally run. This means that essentially your monthly pass or even the HOP money you just loaded on the card is is completely invalid and you need to purchase a full priced fare. I guess you could walk to the station ticket machine first to buy a paper ticket and while that might not sound too bad but the reality is not all bus stops are located close to rail stations. Here is my local station. It is a roughly 330m walk from the location of the ticket machine to the citybound bus stop, that is quite detour if you are coming from north of the station.
I do realise that HOP hasn’t been rolled out to buses yet but seriously having people with valid tickets (as in the case of monthlies) having to pay an additional cash fare is ridiculous. Come on AT, you need to do better than this, these two weekends won’t be the only network shut down between now and when the system rolls out to buses. A backup process is something you should already have nailed down. I know that if I need to travel on that weekend, I definitely won’t be considering the train bus.
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That’s ridiculous. The HOP card business is just barely understandable, but to have to slope off to the train station just to buy a ticket is madness. You’re sure they won’t just be selling tickets on board the bus?
By the way, the conductor on my train yesterday was saying that she’d been told on-board single fare sales are going to continue until at least the end of year. Which if true seems a bit more sensible than introducing the HOP card and getting rid of on-board sales on the same day.
I’m sure they will sell tickets on the bus but that’s not much use if you have a monthly pass loaded up as you have to buy a ticket even though you have already paid for the journey thanks to your pass
And for stations like New Lynn where the ticket machines are on the platform, but the platform is closed for the weekend?
Baah ha haha ha. AT says no.
Madness. AT it seems just want AT hop to fail. Surely their hand held readers for checking cards, can be used by on board staff as mobile tag posts or similar functionality?
Can see the Brian Rudman article in the Herald already…
Pete, that’s clearly a bit strong there – after all, this further screw-up seems to be really due to Snapper, or we might have activated the core HOP on trains and buses at the same time…
But agree, they really need to sort this out with some interim solution. At absolute latest during holiday closure time.
I´m not going to mention the S word as well way off topic. Electronic ticketing is now in relative control of AT and its chosen partners so it should be a no brainer. It needs to be called out for what is is. If the comms campaign has gone to length of having that message printed on it, someone has signed off the no AT hop card on rail replacement buses. It is a poor poor message and shows no joined up thinking. We want people to have a choice of transport options. If I were affected and had a monthly pass, I´d be rightly annoyed to say the least
Ah, nice to see the bumbling emperor parading around with no clothes. And to think, some people blamed it on Snapper.
Silly billies.
Bob, sometimes “blame” (I prefer “fault”) can be found with multiple parties. Personally I blame both AT and Snapper for the mess we’re currently in – both parties are culpable.
But I’m sure you can’t conclude from the fact that AT has bumbled the rail replacement buses that they were also to blame for the entire mess. Seems to me you have a predetermined conclusion that you are desperate to validate. Why not just wait for the process to work it’s way through the courts so we all have all the information we need to start calling people names?
The whole rollout of AT HOP seems to be full of such stupidity. As noted above it seems like the almost want it to fail it has been that bad.
I should have a dig through the relevant threads on the CBT forum and turn it into a post.
This is totally unacceptable AT. The best thing do to is DRIVE.
Has anyone approached AT about this? Were I a train user, I’d be spewing…
They read the site fairly regularly.
I Hope they read this site again soon, very soon.
Limited access to day/family passes = Hop failure one
No Hop on railbuses = Hop failure two
Whats the next Hop failure?
there is a solution AT, customers first!
Making it hard to buy the cards in the first place = HOP failure three
If I want one, I shouldn’t have to plan a special trip to buy one.
I’m sure they are saying you can buy them online, don’t have to leave your desk or beach with your smartphone if that the case. Just have to wait for it to be delivered, but that might be a bit hard a?
I’m not even sure they are saying you can buy them online, and if you can, it’s not at all clear where that is
But has anyone approached AT, as a customer, asking for answers on why they arent getting what they paid for?
They may well read this blog, but I doubt they will respond to internet blogs,
Would love to see the response to direct questions through formal channels however
AT – GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! This is a sign of some TRUE IDIOTS running the show.
It is how you act in a crisis, or “unperfect situation” that marks you as a successful team…… or in this case NOT!
Harsh, I would suggest “true idiots” should be replaced with “overwhelmed staff”. But it’s an opportune time for some decisive leadership so as to save the HOP brand, even if it means spending a bit of dosh. Maybe someone should get Len Brown involved?
There seems to be two relatively obvious options which would have avoided further tarnishing the HOP brand:
1) Close the rail network and not offer rail replacement buses at all; or
2) Make the rail buses free until such time as they are kitted out with HOP readers.
Option 1) is particularly frugal, but may be best given how few people seem to use the rail replacement buses. On the other hand 2) is quite generous, except that the services are so useless and slow that one wonders why you would take them unless you really had to. Making them free also seems reasonable payback for the disruption caused by the network shut down and nascent HOP roll-out.
I don’t want to be too hard on AT, because they are rushing to catch up on so many fronts. But rolling out HOP and then not accepting the cards on rail replacement services seems silly. There is a precedent for free services too – when the Newmarket viaduct was closed for the weekend the trains were free – why not do the same now simply to preserve the integrity of the HOP roll out? Surely that is more important than collecting a few dollars on the rail-replacement buses?
We’ve got to get some “good news” under the HOP belt, and not accepting the tickets the weekend after rolling it out on the trains does appear somewhat farcical.
I was thinking along similar lines.
How much are AT going to spend promoting Hop? Letting passengers showing a Hop card take the rail replacement bus for free would be an effective way to encourage people to buy one. No special bus equipment required. No shooting one’s self in the foot…
Yes I did consider suggesting option 2, hell they don’t even have to advertise it, they could just accept anyone with a HOP card already while those with cash would still pay.
Yeah, I meant free fares funded out of the marketing budget. The only advertising you’d need are to scribble out the 2 lines on the poster and write in Passengers with a Hop ride for FREE. People would work out getting a Hop was a good idea.
Good point Matt – they could just quietly make it free for HOP card holders but charge everyone else; the costs would be minimal I would have thought.
Quoting you Stu: “We’ve got to get some “good news” under the HOP belt, and not accepting the tickets the weekend after rolling it out on the trains does appear somewhat farcical.”
Awaiting October 29 😉
Me too – it’s the day before my birthday. I want a smooth integrated ticketing roll-out for my birthday! Please!
No biggie, it’s the weekend.
Quite a detour? Surely you can’t be that strapped for time that you can’t walk a few minutes.
Hmmm … I have to say that I find your lack of concern for rail customers is, well, concerning ;). I hope you’re right, but it seems to me that not accepting the HOP card the weekend after rolling it out is setting yourself up to piss customers off.
Chris what about if you have a monthly pass so you have already paid for your travel but then have to pay again because the bus that is acting like a train can’t accept your monthly pass?
I had thought that there would be no AT Hop monthly pass. I agree with you then, maybe the rail buses should be free for anyone with a AT Hop card until they sort it out.
some people works on weekends. they probably bought a pass. they pay twice. If I were them I’d board the bus and I’ll say “i have already paid”
So I need to go to the office on Saturday cause I have a heap of work to get through, I’m at work now, but because you don’t work on the weekend I’m punished?
Bit of a poor attitude isn’t it Chris?
Not good form at all AT, not good form.
And that STINKS!!!!
Not only do we have to put up with a vastly inferior service but we have to pay full fare for the (doubtful) privilege.
I tell you – AT should really shut the network down until they can get some practical people to run it!
The train staff will have portable card readers from the end of October to check tickets. As they will not be used if a train is not in service can they not be lent to the replacement bus operator to check cards? Or I am being way too simplistic? AT = another ticket…to? Glad I moved away from Auckland. World class?
They have auckland train conductors on the bus’ so they would not be lending them to someone that dose not work for auckland/veolia transport.
Buses unlikely to have other gear fitted. Handheld is not a standalone device.
Sharon Hunter does respond on here but she seems to be keeping her head down on this one.
Probably having trouble defending the indefensible.
I can kind of understand their problem here, their are currently no Thales bus card readers in the country and the snapper readers we have are incompatible. This is thanks to Sapper and the Readers have only been just ordered as a result of their actions.
But to save face AT really need to take the hit and let people flash their cards for free entry. It might cost them in the short term as the bulk of the users will be using Hop Money, however you would assume it would at least gain them customer loyalty in the long term.
Still blaming Snapper, I see. Nothing at all to do with project management, then i.e no plan B, no other vendor even remotely ready
When you contract a company to carry out a service, you must trust them and expect them to carry out their obligations. Getting another vendor ready incase the other falls through is a huge cost, which would bring into question the reason why you are going with them in the first place. If you don’t trust them to the point you have to line up another company incase you shouldn’t be using them.
Unfortunately we knew we shouldn’t have been going with them in the first instance so shouldn’t have been going with them.
If one vendor fails to deliver, then that is as much the fault of the project manager. If the vendor did deliver, and/or was not given enough to do so, then you should be asking questions of the project manager.
I imagine you’ll do so, in time, as the whipping boy can no longer be blamed.
Thales is blameless here – no matter what Snapper employees might say.
In any case who is at fault has nothing to do with the fact that railbuses, which almost exclusively hired from Hamilton these days, require HOP card users to pay full price.
More incompetence from AT who, by their silence, obviously know that they are wrong.
London doesn’t bother with asking customers to use Oyster on rail replacement buses, and they have partial line closures pretty much every weekend. Free would be best. Or at the very minimum, free to Hop card holders, as mentioned above.
AT may not have the budget. In any case, who owns the replacement buses? NZBus, methinks.
Recently I don’t think AT have been using NZBus as the replacement buses. Also you seem to think AT had the budget to line up another contractor for the bus implementation of Hop yet not the budget to offer free rides to people with the AT HOP card the weekend after it gets released? (Hint: the later would be more cost effective)
Who owns the buses is irrelevant to the question of fares. AT sets the fares on all services – and contracts the rail replacement buses separately from other services so could just as easily say free fares on these weekends.
Nobody willingly gets on a railbus anyhow, there is no need to check tickets at all.
exactly
I get the impression that railbuses are not well patronised. Does anyone know what kind of drop in patronage you see between a normal service and railbus service?
It must drop to no more people than can fit on a bus, at least 🙂
Sometimes only a taxi load!
Yes, I’m bit perplexed that I loaded just under $150 onto my card to be later told to have to pay cash. I do realize these are teething problems at the moment so I shouldn’t complain too much as the transport system here is much better than it was 5 years ago, but I did feel slightly put out yesterday. I rang MAXX confirming about the AT HOP card holder having to pay cash/paper ticket instead. They told me to get on the bus and it should be free. Sure enough, for my 4-stage bus trip to city was free (can’t complain about that). My trip back on the other hand was a different story. I was sitting in rail replacement bus ready to go back home when ticket person on bus told me that I would have to pay $5 for my trip back. I was bit embarrassed. Fortunately the bus hadn’t left dock so I rushed out to get some $ from some place (I don’t really want to carry cash nowadays). Now I can’t complain TOTALLY since my return total trip would have totaled $5 but it would be good to have a bit of organized structure to this. For the AT HOP card holder getting a paper ticket – we might as well tag on and tag off since it’s near the same paper machines. Though it may be a distance to walk from machine to bus, I wouldn’t really mind as long as I didn’t have to fork out additional $ on top of my AT HOP card.