Back in February I wrote a blog post about how lucrative Grafton Bridge’s bus lanes are proving for Auckland City Council, with well over a million dollars in fines having been issued in the few months that the bridge has been open to buses only from 7am to 7pm, Monday to Friday. For some reason Auckland City Council think this is a bad thing, and a whole agenda item was included in the most recent meeting of the Transport Committee to discuss this embarrassment of riches.
Furthermore, NZ Herald columnist Brian Rudman picks up on the issue in today’s paper, saying the following:
…The result is the Grafton Bridge fiasco. Since October, when cars and trucks were barred from the bridge between 7am and 7pm on weekdays, there’s been mass disobedience on the part of motorists. How much is deliberate defiance is anyone’s guess.
I suspect the main reason has been the inadequacy of the signs, compounded by the “tourist on the wrong side” syndrome.
Just as some tourists default to their normal right-hand side of the road when driving on our long and often empty rural highways, Grafton Bridge seems so inviting when you approach it in its usual state – which is largely devoid of buses.
In other words, there are no reference points such as a line of buses, to suggest it is a bus-only zone.
Since December, when $150 fines began being enforced, more than 12,000 drivers have been stung for $1.9 million. Only 25 per cent have paid.
Transport committee chairman Ken Baguley now admits the signs were inadequate. He says he’s suggested to his officials that “with the benefit of hindsight, you’re not alerted to the fact that it’s a bus lane very well.”
He hardly needed hindsight for that penny to drop.
In late October, soon after the ban came into force, I ridiculed the inadequacy of the signs after a single trip to view them. The problem was obvious then, and people were transgressing from day one.
In a recent report to the city transport committee, parking group manager Dale Clements says the “perception amongst some road users and the media” that the signs have been inadequate and the enforcement activities are part of a revenue-gathering exercise “has been exacerbated by the low level of observed bus volume on the bridge – 281 buses per 24 hour weekday”.
He adds that “perceptions of low bus volumes undermine the argument for retaining Grafton Bridge for buses only”. With that sentiment I fully agree.
I’m a great supporter of public transport. Unlike the vast majority of politicians involved, I use it. But I’ve always believed hijacking Grafton Bridge for buses merely created a new set of problems.
High among them was that it blocked the quickest route from the inner western suburbs to the city’s main public hospital and the adjacent Domain and museum.
In the last remaining months of Auckland City’s existence, we’re unlikely to see anyone admitting the error of their ways over Grafton Bridge and the central connector.
But come the Super City and one integrated transport agency, maybe a fresh set of eyes will do better.
I certainly agree with Rudman that the the number of people making the mistake of driving on the bridge when they should be is an obvious indicator that the signage is inadequate. In terms of what can be called “empty road syndrome” that fact that not many buses appear to be using the bridge ignores the fact that for each full bus that goes across it you are carrying as many people as would be in cars that would take up the whole bridge. But getting back to the signage, it is interesting to see how defensive council staff are about things, in the committee paper:
October 2009:
The initial signage installation complied 100% with the TCD (Traffic Control Devices) Rule. All signage was in place at the opening of Grafton Bridge.November 2009:
Based on the high level of warnings issued, during November 2009 additional advisory signage was installed on the Karangahape Road approach to the bridge and at the point of entry on the bridge. These were Bus Lane 7am to 7pm Mon to Fri signs. This advisory signage was installed prior to active enforcement and is over and above requirements nominated by the TCD Rule (Traffic Control Devices Rule).February 2010
By the end of January, allowing for the holiday period, the infringement levels had still not reduced to the levels expected. Therefore, on 14 February further signage which carried the international No-entry symbol
and No left/right turn symbols were installed. These signs are unequivocal and, again, are well beyond the requirements of the TCD rule. Permission from NZTA was required to install them.
This is the kind of “speak” that makes people hate bureaucrats. Who cares if the signage is over and above some arbitrary TCD rule? The fact of the matter is that it’s clearly insufficient, so council needs to improve it.
But where I certainly don’t agree with him is about the idea that having Grafton Bridge as a bus only route is problematic. For a start, the bridge cannot be widened – so therefore either we are going to have buses mixing with general traffic (negating many of the benefits of the Central Connector project as a whole) or we are going to have to build a separate bridge (super expensive) or Rudman’s suggestion (earlier in his piece) that the Central Connector go via Grafton Road rather than via Grafton Bridge.
In the map below the current Central Connector route is shown in blue, and Rudman’s preferred alignment shown in Red:
There are many reasons why I am forever grateful we went with the blue option. For a start it provides high quality bus lanes along almost all of Symonds Street – one of the biggest gains of the Central Connector is that the millions of buses that use Symonds Street can enjoy this benefit. The second advantage of this alignment is that it is far more accessible to AUT, a huge source of passengers. And a third reason is that it’s far more useful for this southeast corner of the CBD – there are a lot more people working in Upper Symonds Street or K Road than along Grafton Road. Finally, it’s worth nothing that another bridge across Grafton Gully for vehicles has been built in recent times – the Wellesley Street bridge shown in Green. So vehicles have effectively gained a crossing and lost a crossing – surely not too bad of a result.
While Auckland City Council should definitely improve the signage to ensure that people know when they can and can’t cross Grafton Bridge in their car, aside from that the council should be extremely happy at the amount of money it is making out of people driving across the bridge. By my calculations they’ve already made back about 20% of their investment in the Central Connector project. In a few years’ time it might even be turning a profit. In other words, while I have sympathy for those who truly didn’t realise the bridge was bus only, I can’t help but think that a fair number of people “give it a crack” and hope that nobody will be there to photograph them as they cross. The whole Central Connector project depends on Grafton Bridge being bus only – and the alternatives are pretty hopeless.
In the end, Auckland needs to use its road-space more efficiently and that involves getting more people onto our buses. For that to be viable the buses need to travel quickly, and that depends upon more and more bus lanes. The sooner we get used to that the better.
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All I can say is give the roadway on the full length of Grafton Bridge the green surface treatment. Then nobody can complain they didn’t know it was a buslane or the signage was insufficient. If you don’t notice you’re driving on a bright green street then you deserve to cop a ticket!
Mate, you need to know before you get on the bridge not when you are on it, where it is too late/dangerous to turn around!!!!
You don’t look in front of you when your driving? I mean if you’re heading towards the bridge and it’s nothing but green lanes stretching into the distance that would be a pretty good indication that it was a bus lane and you should look out for other signs.
Rudman is very frustrating sometimes. He usually has a fair few good points, however spoils it with a few rash statements. As well as the points made above regarding the alternative route, he also gets it wrong about the Central Connector duplicating rail investment which it does not. Although having buses running into town from Papakura is silly there are plenty of routes that do not duplicate rail. There is also the issue that the CC serves a very important corridor with the Uni, hospital etc.
Totally agree Luke. By Rudman’s logic London would have no need for any buses in its central city…
Perhaps the biggest benefit of the central connector is the Symonds St bus lanes, useful for a tonne of services that don’t go anywhere near a railway line.
As Geoff pointed out on another blog the bridge is for buses only 60 hours out of a 168 hour week… On that premise alone it shouldn’t be painted green..! Lol… I’d agree with some green strips at either end…
I have had the unique insight of driving regularly past this bridge as part of my job, I got really annoyed at first at how many people I saw driving over the bridge (about 3 per light change in each direction) and how unpoliced the new rules seemed to be… Then every now and then I would see a Traffic Constable on the bridge… Currently there is almost guaranteed to be a Council Parking Warden on the bridge the majority of the working day, the Council knows a money spinner when it sees one…
My thoughts on Grafton Bridge, as someone who lives in the area:
1. There were gigantic flashing signs when it first opened, informing people of the new “buses only” rules. The current signs are kind of small, but still legible. Is it any wonder that our road toll is so high when motorists don’t even read signs?
2. Regarding the fines, if you break the law on the road, and get caught, you get a ticket. Those who were fined should get over it. They should also install a speed camera on the bridge, because it’s 30km/hr or something but all the car drivers seem to do the usual 50-60 (at the times when they are permitted on the bridge, that is).
3. The central connector has massively improved bus services in the area and to change it would be the height of stupidity. The Link (which is one of the few easy-to-use bus routes in the city) gets to Newmarket from town pretty quickly since the central connector opened, which is great because parking/driving in Newmarket is a nightmare.
I was disapointed reading that column today he basically seemed to be saying the whole thing is such a disaster lets give Grafton back to the cars and forget about the Central Connector…
I think the Central Connector is a fabulous piece of infrastructure and will massively reduce a large number of buses commute times (therefore increasing competetiveness against cars) for years to come…
Jezza, all the green buslanes around town are general traffic lanes for more hours per week. It doesn’t mean you can’t always drive on them, but its a bloody obvious reminder that there might be some restrictions!
Yeah I know, I think most of those lanes only have 10 hours of restrictions a week..!
Probably also doesn’t help that if you are not familar with the area and look up the mapbook, use online maps or use GPS it would tell you that the shortest route is across the bridge. It would be interesting to know how many of the tickets issued for using the bus lane were to drivers who don’t normally reside in auckland?
Is there a genuine traffic congestion problem at the other two bridges?
Well the council seems to be sticking to intent on keeping it as it is and I’m guessing the publicity in the papers will soon die down. Who gets the money from the tickets anyway? Council? Red Light camera money for instance doesn’t go to the council rather central government as far as I’m aware.
Even if there was congestion at the other two bridges and I’m sure at rush hour there is, much like at rush hour Grafton Bridge was always completely packed, in my view that’s further evidence that a congestion free alternative i.e. PT needs to be provided.
Like SJ I also live just around the corner from there.
The signs on the actual bridge itself arn’t THAT big, but they’re not small either. They certainly are readable.
Also, from the K Rd side there is a LARGE overhead gantry sign which features a “No Entry” sign for the bridge along with other lane instructions.
Finally, it simply comes down to – if you can’ be bothered to read the signs/take your eyes off the GPS and use your brain for a second – tough f**king luck, suck it up princess and pay the fine.
Actually, best result of all would be to simply just close it for cars altogether. Its not like there was a massive increase in congestion in the area during the construction period.
@rtc, I believe the red light cameras are admisistered by the police (not 100% sure on that), the council does get the money for the tickets…
I like the fact of closing it off to cars forever, then the GPS’s google maps etc, also change. So lets go for gold! The signs are there to be read, you were supposed to read them to pass you restricted and full driver tests. But green lanes make sence and to me are under-utilized through out the city.
This is incredible – their logic suggests that if people ignore a rule, it should be revoked (cars continue to cross Grafton bridge therefore it should go back to car use). If you follow this idea, it means that other popular law breaking should just be accepted and dictate what is allowed – drink driving, drugs, theft!!
Alternatively, we could just make more roads car free and use the income from fines to do good – sort of like a Robbin Hood thing for roads.
Realistically, if a motorist can’t see a big flashing sign, they have no business being on the road as they obviously won’t see that pedestrian or that cyclist either!
I wonder if the council are actually using the money from the fines to pay of the infrastructure cost or if it is just going into a slush fund that can be used for other pet projects. I suspect the latter will be the case.
Also do we know how much money they collect from infringements in other buslanes, I used to remember heading up Khyber Pass every day and would always see them there, they always had cars to film breaking the rules.
I’m hoping the money goes into the general coffers, from memory the council is running a deficit this year…
@unity – my thoughts exactly, if we listen to people pissed off at getting ticketed then we should also remove fines for red traffic lights and perhaps the whole criminal justice system.
I’d find it rather humorous, and fairer than the fact that all petrol taxes go into perpetuating our car-dependency, if the money was ring-fenced into funding further bus lanes around the city. Perhaps initially the money should go into buying more of the cameras for patrolling the lanes. The council was calling for the police to give them the money from the red-light camera trial fines to enable more cameras to be purchased. Sounded like a good idea to me.
I sadly am not so sure that the bad publicity will die down. These things have an ugly habit of staying around – and ignoring the stupidity of doing transport decisions based on badly researched opinions like those of Rudman, Councils really DO need to listen to such complaints, because they are political poison. A good Council in such a case is divided from a bad Council by what it does, not by the fact whether or not it listens to the complaints.
The council has no choice in this matter if it changes the bus only policy it will have to pay back over 20 million to NZTA and ARTA – imagine the outcry if it turned out they blew 20 million!
Yeah that’s right RTC. Auckland City Council did investigate the possibility of back-tracking on making Grafton Bridge bus only but found that ARTA and NZTA would want some of their contribution to the central connector back if Council undertook that action.
It’s pretty easy to tell that Auckland City is pretty half-arsed about the benefits of making the bridge bus only.
I got fined for driving over the bridge. I live in Hamilton and rarely come up to Auckland (2nd visit so far) I never saw a sign saying bus’s only etc, where they have them i have no idea but a good place to start would be to put them on the traffic lights because the only thing i saw was a green arrow so i assumed i was allowed to drive over. I’m not familiar with Aucklands stupid signs and weird roads/streets, the only reason i ended up at Grafton bridge was because i got lost due to all the no right and left turns everywhere in Auckland central. Hamilton to Auckland Sky tower… look at a map and you’ll notice Grafton bridge isn’t where your meant to be. I told the council i got lost and wasn’t used to driving around in Auckland but it seems they don’t care about the people that live in much smaller cities with simpler roads.
And to the “unity finesmith” :
“This is incredible – their logic suggests that if people ignore a rule, it should be revoked (cars continue to cross Grafton bridge therefore it should go back to car use). If you follow this idea, it means that other popular law breaking should just be accepted and dictate what is allowed – drink driving, drugs, theft!!”
Everyone EVERYONE knows drink driving, stealing, murder etc is illegal, its extensively advertised on t.v, radio, news papers and word of mouth.. bus lanes are not. Before driving up to Auckland i had never heard of bus lanes and even when i was at the lights ready to turn onto the bridge i never saw i sign, 90% of my attention is on the traffic lights and surrounding motorists and pedestrians.. sure i could pay more attention to everything not directly in front of behind me but I’m sure i would probably cause A LOT of accidents and probably kill heaps and heaps of cyclists and pedestrians, iv had huge amounts of pedestrians walk out in front of me but due to my ability to focus on more important things like the road i see them and stop, if i wanted to play “I SPY” A HIDDEN BUS LANE SIGN” i would gladly take my attention of the people and motorists around me.
Brock – I think you just strengthened the arguement for painting the road with bus only, If you got your eyes glued to the road you will def see it. But I think that comment from Unity was more directed at the people who intentionaly break the rules, even when they know theyre breaking them, which in Auckland at the moment is quite common place with bus lanes, then they complain to try and avoid the ticket.
Although to pass you ristricted and full drivers test you were supposed to understand, notice and act to road sign surrounding you, at the same time being aware of the environment, people, cars etc. So the excuse of you will “probably kill heaps and heaps of cyclists and pedestrians” by reading these signs, or looking for them, suggests you either need to resit the test, or just get off the bloody road. It’s concerning that we have people driving who can’t notice and read a sign with out killing somebody. I agree the sign needs to be more visable, I agree there should be road marking, I also think you should take some driving leassons.
I probably sit in the middle – I can see people like Brock miss the signs, even though they drive relatively safely. It does only take a bit of confusion (“Uh, was THAT the street I was supposed to go down?” “Heck, how do I ever get back to where I thought I was going?” and then maybe some other thing like a moving vehicle or pedestrian behaving erratically in front or next to you to distract you a bit – and then you’re on the bridge without knowing it…)
So I CAN understand Brock (except when he says he doesn’t know about bus lanes!) – however, the ticket poeple can in practice (and in law) not make a difference for people in such a case. Otherwise, the “I was distracted / I didn’t know it was there” argument could be used by everyone.
Brock’s situation is understandable and I think unfortunately the way the law works it must be paid, in traffic offences only the legal condition of actus reus (the act) must be met, not mens rea (the intent)…
On a positive note I drove past the bridge today and didn’t see the usual 2 – 3 cars on the bridge or the warden… So hopefully things have calmed down now…
I certainly have some sympathy for Brock’s situation given the poor signage. Auckland City Council has said that they will be considering exemptions for special circumstance so I would recommend writing to them explaining the situation.
I still don’t think the signage is bad.
Its certainly significantly better than the ‘don’t enter’ signs on motorway exits.
It almost calls for someone to go out with a camera and play ‘count the signs’.
Brock – sucks for you, and in the scheme of things you’re pretty low in the offending list, however Auckland being Auckland there are a ton of twats who just don’t give a rats arse about the signs and still bitch when they get fined. Those people I have less than no sympathy for. However as Joshua said, when you’re tested avoiding other road users and reading road signs is an AND activity rather than an OR activity, and there is plenty of signage indicating that you can’t go on the bridge.
Perhaps it is my fault for not seeing the sign, I wasn’t expecting to see a “no turn” “no entry” etc sign so i wasn’t very vigilant.
When I’m looking for a car park, i look out for a signs.
When I’m driving and see men with high vis vests on, i assume road works are ahead and look out for signs.
When I’m on the open road and see more and more houses etc i assume the speed limits going to change (pretty obvious) so i look out for a speed limit sign.
BUT when I’m approaching a bridge I’m certainly not going to think “hey, maybe I’m not allowed on the bridge” because until now i didn’t think there were special bridges for buses so i wouldn’t make much of an effort to look out for signs. I did see a bus lane sign several times on another part of the motorway but that was because it was big bold and simple and wasn’t surrounded by other distracting things.
I’m only trying to put the point across that:
1. To non Auckland residents, people may not be expecting to see bus only bridge
2. The council put the signs in somewhat silly positions ( a sign on the traffic lights or a big sign above the entrance to the bridge would certainly rule out any confusion).
3. Even if you did see a bus lane sign, would you think that it was talking about the bridge? ( when i went across i didn’t see a single bus, and i wasn’t aware of what i had done until i got the fine in the mail).
4. $150 fine is very expensive for a 15second drive, if it was a busy bus bridge or even bus stop i would understand.
5. This may sound unfair to Aucklanders, but for non Aucklanders warnings should be issued. ( we may not have had the privilege to see the big electronic signs or get warnings in the mail, like aucklanders got when the bus lane first opened)
Hi Brock,
In the case of a person from out of town there are always going to difficulties using the transport system. In Auckland there are plenty of one way streets, buslanes, cycle lanes you can’t drive on, motorways you can’t cycle on, parking lanes that become traffic lanes during the peak, etc. So yeah when driving anywhere in Auckland you need to say “hey maybe I’m not allowed to drive on this road/street/bridge” pretty damned often. There is a one way bus only tunnel in Wellington they were having trouble with recently because google maps was telling tourists they could drive down it (to disasterous consequences).
In regard to the big fine, it has to be significant to actually deter people from using it. If it was only $40 or something people would probably be a lot happier to risk getting caught and it wouldn’t really work. Likewise if non-Aucklanders get a warning then some would realise they can just drive on the bus lane every time they are in town. But maybe they could give every rego number one warning letter, do it a second time and you cop the fine.
In regard to not seeing a single bus or it not being busy, that is the benefit of it i.e. buses have a clear run through that bridge. While that makes the bridge look unused it actually carries over 2,000 bus services a day. It obviously can’t do that if it was choked with traffic like it used to be.
Anyway, in my opinion they should paint every full time bus lane in the city with the bright green surface treatment they use in some places why not everywhere?). That would immediately signal to anyone that it wasn’t just a normal road.
They should relay all the buslanes with red chip tarseal…
Yeah I’d prefer red from an urban design point of view (i.e. it looks nicer). Plus I reckon it would last longer, as the red comes from the natural colour of the aggregate used, it’s not just a layer of paint.
The thing is they only need to do the first 10m or so, doing the whole bridge would be pointless and a waste of money.
I agree Matt, only the first few metres would be necessary. I’m not sure whether it matters about the roads being red or green – seems like an expensive waste of money to change bus lane colours.
They made $1.7 million from Grafton bridge alone, more and more $ each day too, money is not an issue in this instance.. they could afford to re seal it hundreds of times
That is true Brock, from my calculations Auckland City has made back a fairly big chunk of what it spent on the central connector.
@admin, my understanding is that the red chip tar seal as part of the road last significantly longer and over a period of years significantly cheaper than the green paint but was not chosen due to upfront costs…
Painting the first 20 metres or so would make a huge difference, (but then they wouldn’t make so much money)
You can argue all you like about it being your own fault for not reading the signs, but it is plain and simple a massive revenue gathering exercise
A great big second to that Bill.
Got pinged again with this $150 fine on Grafton bridge. This was news to me regarding Grafton being made only a bus lane, I haven’t driven there for a year, I alawys used to use the grafton bridge, or use the lane to turn off to the motor way, with buss in the way or even 2-3 cars you can’t see this signage at all until it’s too late. Considering I have driving in Auckland for 15 years and Grafton being a bridge for cars and traffic for about 100 years, an the lack of communication on this, I’m not surprised I’m not the only person who has issues with this crap. I’d encourage eveyone who has issues with this to get a lawyer and take this up with the council as there website states the bridge signage is clearly marked which is it clearly is not in normal traffic conditions.
Rubbish, the signs are very clear. You should have been on a bus yourself!
So instead of avoiding Grafton Bridge after being fined for driving across it, you drove across it again regardless and got fined a second time? Don’t expect any sympathy from me.
Go on, go get a lawyer and see how you go.
If you can’t see 6 signs at each end and an overhead gantry at the Grafton Rd end of the bridge then you simply should not be driving as your eyesight is obviously not up to standard.
As rtc has said later its getting to the point now of sign overkill because of how many signs they’ve had to put up.
Also there is a reason you haven’t driven there for a year (or longer) is because it was CLOSED while they were making the earthquake strengthening work and preparing it for the Central Connector.
Surely you should have learned a lesson the first time?
Ouch I recently got pinged for traversing this bridge. Being a Westie I didn’t have a clue it was a bus lane only. I approached it from the Grafton Rd end at rush hour 5.00pm and just when the sun was so low at the other end of the bridge blinding all drivers and making it impossible to read any signage facing us. I could just see green lights under the sunvisor indicating left, ahead and right turns and road markings on a black road indicating I could go ahead etc. By the time I was halfway across I noticed a distinct lack of traffic and then at the other end, the lovely officer 664 with a video camera shaking her head saying BUS LANE!. YAY $150 they want. So I protest, and after 2 months get a considered reply saying… “I can find no reasonable grounds for canceling the ticket” But I thought guilt was ascribed where there is intent, negligence or even carelessness? Nah that aint cricket!. Anyone interested in some clever street theatre that might bring this one to a close. They are creaming it and have no motivation or care why so many are continuing to be snapped. Their PR is appalling. Its got to stop! Fraser
Fraser, Go back there some time and have a look at how many signs there are around the bridge. I go past there everyday and it’s almost laughable, I’m not surprised your sun in your eyes excuse didn’t work. This month the council added an overhead electronic signal unit on a giant gantry. There is clutter from all the signs now. Without enforcement our bus-lanes will be-come clogged with cars and become in-effective.
Whilst it’s not nice to be fined such is the result when you drive in a bus lane, drive through a stop sign, go over the speed limit or whatever. It can be an honest mistake but I’m yet to see a Police officer not giving out a ticket because someone claims the sun blocked his/her view of the stop sign.
It’s really ridiculous the amount of signage up there these days and barring having barriers blocking anyone but buses I don’t know what it will take for people to finally accept that they made a mistake and like it or not there’s a fine to pay.
Fraser, the “road markings on a black road indicating I could go ahead etc.” are actually road markings indicating buses, cyclists and motorcyles can go ahead.
As they say ignorance is no defence from the law, and it seems to be getting pretty hard to argue there isn’t enough signage around anyway.
I was advised by the GPS on the rental to take the bridge. I pay a $15 rental per day for the GPS alone. Please help.
Takes time for changes to the roading system to permeate down to the sat navs – however – a sat nav is a guidance not something to be followed with your brain turned off. If the police have a road blocked and your navi says to keep driving who do your listen to?
Contact the GPS company and complain I reckon.
They put up huge signal gantries over the entrances, just so that there’s REALLY not option to say “I didn’t know”!
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grafton_Bridge,_Signals_For_The_Clueless.jpg
This message is to ingolfson. Having signs that high is crap. If yoy drove down the road everywhere you looking for signs that you could fly a jumbo jet under you would run over the public crash into car etc.
Their must be a legal height of on what signage should be
I grew up in Auckland,but have not lived there for 9 years,I recently came back for a wedding and was asked to go from my hotel in downtown to Newmarket to pick up flowers from the wedding,so my boyfriend who is not from Auckland drove on my directions up Symonds street and then we turned onto Grafton bridge,not realizing that it was bus only,when you are stopped at the lights and a few cars back you cant see the signs,and if you have trucks or buses in front of you its too late,you only see them when you are turning onto the bridge and cant change lanes,there were other cars in front of us so we had no idea we were going the wrong way,but you cant turn back so you have to keep going,if we had known we would have taken a different route,and obviously we did,the Domain was closed for renovations so you have to go the long way around. I am back in America right now and heard about the fines from Campbell live,the car we used was a family member from Hamilton,so now they are going to get a bill,which I wouldnt pay but its not my car!